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Airsoft Artillery?

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Unread postAuthor: magnum9987 » Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:42 pm

Only enough phosphorous in the fuse to give off light and smoke. Plus, with so many bbs, the energy would be dispersed among them to sufficiently propel the 2-3000 bbs. The flash powder would also provide a visual effect that indicates where the round went off. Their is a very small chance of collateral damage, so it can't hurt too bad. And not an m8o, m100
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Unread postAuthor: magnum9987 » Fri Jun 06, 2008 3:49 pm

How about sabots and shells are eliminated all together?
Well, if the mass of the bbs could be increased, they could be fired directly from the gun like a giant shotgun. A mesh separate the chamber from the ammo, and the bbs would fly directly out.
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Unread postAuthor: koolaidman » Fri Jun 06, 2008 4:02 pm

Actually what i just realized, on my design on the previous page, a tail assembly would not even be required. The drag from the nose could be used to keep the spring compressed.

And as for you fools talking about explosives. Give it a rest, i dont know why your posts havent been deleted. Im by no means a safety nazi, but launching a fused explosive out of a barrel could go very wrong. by all means blow yourself up, just dont involve us or any others.
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Unread postAuthor: magnum9987 » Fri Jun 06, 2008 4:10 pm

New idea

A pvc chamber 5in diameter and 15in long Is fired into the air. One cap is not fixed on. A parachute is attached to the opposite end, and the removable cap falls off by inertia when the parachute is deployed. Then all the bbs fall out.
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Unread postAuthor: skyjive » Fri Jun 06, 2008 4:30 pm

After thinking about the question, I was actually thinking along identical lines to magnum, as it is simple and non-explosive. The obvious problem is getting the parachute to deploy at a specific point in flight. also, depending on the trigger height of the round, the free-falling pvc cap could be somewhat dangerous. Then we have to think about the reliability of the parachute deployment system, because if it fails we just have a large kinetic energy round going dowrange (albeit at a high trajectory) at human targets. promising idea though, I think.
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Unread postAuthor: magnum9987 » Fri Jun 06, 2008 4:35 pm

You know those plastic Paratroopers you often get in goodie bags at parties? Same concept, so the parachute should open easily. Plus if a few couplers are added the size of the cap should be significantly smaller, and if it is low sch, should be insignificant in mass. But, their is still no guarantee that the parachute will deploy, as long as the parachute is big enough it should open easily. The power of the gun must be increased to control when the parachute deploys (which will probably be at the apex of flight, or just after it).

Another problem is directing the artillery. It is up to the commander to tell where to aim the artillery. So, a 3 dimensional system should be made. An 80 degree winch for vertical angles, and a 360 degree winch along the x axis.

Also, what should the size of the combustion chamber be. I'm thinking big, I mean 8in diameter and 20 in long.
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Unread postAuthor: magnum9987 » Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:30 pm

What is the biggest piece of pvc you have found or seen? The larger chamber could allow for howitzer-type airsoft artillery. Though the parachute system is the one most likely to work.
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Unread postAuthor: magnum9987 » Sun Jun 08, 2008 2:57 pm

MAybe a giant grenade launcher type cannon could be built. But instead of gas powered it is propelled by a specially adapted combustion chamber, or groupings of 6oz co2 cartridges.
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Unread postAuthor: Sticky_Tape » Sun Jun 08, 2008 4:41 pm

How about pop cans with streamers atached to the bottom and fitted with a special cap on the front that would be weighted so when the shell slows down because of the drag of the streamers the cap seperates because the cap would have more inertia than the part that would hold the bbs.
Or just build a shoulder fired nerf football launcher probably more accurate. You could probably weight the footballs so you could be farther away than aegs can reach. Fire at squads take someone out.
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You can tell how awesome a cannon is by the pressure used.
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Unread postAuthor: DYI » Sun Jun 08, 2008 5:37 pm

The biggest piece of PVC pipe I've ever seen was a 12' section of 16", 200psi rated water pipe, lying by the side of the road. But a combustion wouldn't be the greatest idea for this. You should be looking more toward a large, low pressure pneumatic cannon. Probably 6" bore at least, and only 20 psi or so. This would allow the firing of more delicate rounds in comparison to a combustion, which scorches everything, and generates in the 90psi neighbourhood.
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Unread postAuthor: microman171 » Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:08 am

How about a similar Idea to stiky_tapes? If you get the nerf ball and have a weighted cap. The cap falls off eventually and the BB's spill out, that way you would have a mortar. Fire it out of a low pressure pnuematic and voila...

OR

A high pressure piston/ QEV valved gun, the BBs are shot at super high speeds really high, they then landin a massive shower. Dont know about that one though, It would use ALOT of BBs.

I think the wind may catch the BBs in any design and make it hard to aim this device.
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Unread postAuthor: magnum9987 » Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:20 pm

The problem with nerf is that they are super low powered. I don't expect either distance or accuracy from a nerf gun.
The soda pop can might work, good idea.
Pneumatics have a lower rof than a combustion would, with the time it takes to fill up a chamber.
An artillery piece should be super simplistic to teach some one to use.
Maybe a combustion chamber could be fitted with an adaptor, and a grenade launcher shell (Giant!) could be used, thats my main idea, other than the parachute shell.
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Unread postAuthor: microman171 » Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:46 am

What I mean is those mega howler things (look like small missiles) And youj make a hollow section and fill with BBs, the nose would be held on by gravity then inertia then nothing, thus dispersing BBs. With the way this will work I would really be expecting accuracy... That would semi defeat the purpose. I would get the 0.2g BBs not the lightest, that way they dont get blown by the wind as much. What ever you are going to shoot into the air just imagine being hit in the head, soft spongy = not too bad (headache but not much else) Where as a soda can = major pain, possible concussion. I prefer the first idea but the second would be VERY easy. Also with teaching somebody to use it, the pneumatics would likely have the same learning curve. I am a fan of pnuematics so I think they are better. If you get a CO2 bottle adapter then that can be an air source. All you need then is a regulator.
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Unread postAuthor: magnum9987 » Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:44 pm

Ok, we now have three plausible ideas.
1) Parachute system
2) Nerf rocket system
3) Grenade launcher type

My criticism for each:
1) Parachute System:
Pros: Huge amount of ammo delivery allowed

Cons: Huge projectile could be lethal weapon

2) Nerf System:
Pros: Simplistic
Non lethal round

Cons: Small amount of ammo

3) Grenade Launcher type System:
Pros: LArge Amount of ammo delivery
Simple to train
accurate
No lethal projectiles
Variable propulsion methods

Cons: Range

Did I leave anything out?

Maybe all 3 of these could be used on a battlefield.

The parachute method could be a long range gun
The nerf could be a handheld or mobile unit
The grenade launcher could be a handheld or mobile unit or field gun (PAk Howitzer?)
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Unread postAuthor: DYI » Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:56 pm

What kind of range would you be looking at?

I don't play airsoft very much, but 400 or so .12g BBs out of a 2" barrel at 700fps make a relatively effective mid-range weapon (maybe 50-100 feet max.). The real problem is drag. Even if you can get them going Mach 3, they'll be down to standard airsoft gun speeds in a few tens of yards.

So, you need to have a higher ratio of mass:drag. This means a larger, denser, and more streamlined projectile that bursts to release its payload at the desired time. This requirement creates complications:
-for a while, you have a large, heavy projectile that could cause severe injuries.
-you need a directly controllable, or at least timed delay system, to regulate the bursting of the shell
-you need some method of actually bursting the shell, most of which would be either stupid, illegal, inoperable, unreliable, and/or horrendously expensive
-you need a projectile that can burst safely, without risk of shrapnel injuries

So, here's my updated suggestion, with these considerations in mind:
Very large bore (6" or bigger) cardboard shells (made from concrete forming tubes), with the payload in the front section and a cardboard nosecone. In the back section, a balloon filled with oxy/fuel with a fuse taped to it. The fuse can be cut to the desired length to determine when the shell bursts. The fuse could be a sparkler, which doesn't need favourable atmospheric conditions to burn, and has a slow burn rate. This means that the actual act of firing wouldn't affect the fuse.

This setup would obviously require some really big pipe, and a breach loading mech, but it has potential, and could be made with very readily available materials. Combined with GGDT calcs for pressure/elevation vs. range, this could be made into a reasonably safe and cheap airsof artillery piece.

And please, no more discussion of bursting shells with explosives... I'm really suprised that this thread even survived to the third page as it is.
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