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Increase gas milage

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Unread postAuthor: iknowmy3tables » Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:10 pm

yeah but in reality solar panels suck, a solar panel that size will only extend the life of your ipod battery, it does practically nothing for you car battery, and if it's not well streamlined it can probably lower gas millage

solar panels produce very little energy
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Unread postAuthor: ammosmoke » Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:27 pm

Solar panels aren't as bad as you say they are iknowmy3tables, but they only have about 17% efficiency at best. The University of Delaware came out with one that is about 45% efficiency, a huge leap, which could probably make solar cells actually useful. But, the technology isn't going to be out until 2010.

I don't think that this can really improve gas mileage. Like the others have said, you can't get more energy than you put in. I regret the fact that you have spent so much time on making your electrolyzers though... You should probably just fill balloons with em and watch them explode. At least you will get something out of it. If you really want better efficiency, get an aftermarket ECU, or an ECU programmer. Then, get a better air intake, and a better exhaust system. As a general rule, stock engines are choked by restrictive intake/exhaust systems, and their ECU's aren't as efficient as they could be. I know somebody with a truck who upgraded their airfilter with K&N, got a new exhaust system, and reprogrammed his ECU, and he got 5-6mpg more. 20mpg highway instead of 15, 15 city instead of 10. Turbos can also increase gas mileage depending on their size. (At what RPM they get up to speed depends on size.)

But, if you do decide to keep on with the "HHO" idea, you should be aware that the ECU will freak out, causing horrible gas mileage unless reprogrammed. Hydrogen burns hotter than gasoline, which would require you to get a better cooling system. There is a higher change of detonation from increased oxygen in the system also.
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Unread postAuthor: TurboSuper » Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:35 pm

If what you're saying is true, then how come an HHO-injector increased the MPG in a diesel engine (If that study I linked earlier is accurate)?

I know it seems to break the laws of energy, but these things tend to get oversimplified. I wouldn't throw the idea away just yet.

Oh, and I hate to break it you Iknowmy3tables, but multiple cars have been run off solar power exclusively.
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Unread postAuthor: scianiac » Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:14 pm

OK. I am also interested in this subject and have done some research. First of all your alternator is always spinning and not always powering much so are you recovering lost energy from it spinning as long as you don't draw to much current? Second H2 and O2 burn much faster and much hotter than vaporized gasoline so the pressure spike is higher upon ignition. However since it burns so much faster it releases less heat during the stroke because it has already finished burning. Then you have to account for gasoline leaving behind hot gases while H2 and O2 only leave behind superheated steam. I have not seen anything on this since I read about a company that was experimenting with electrolysis under pressure. As with all chemical reactions I think the pressure adds efficiency to the reaction. Unlike gasoline hydrogen doesn't detonate during the compression cycle because it takes extreme temperatures to autoignite. So very high compression ratios could be used, increasing efficiency.

Does all this help or hurt the system I don't know.

And since I'm already in the process of making a hydro booster I will post how testing goes. Of course if it doesn't work I'm going to fill dry cleaner bags with H2 and O2 put fuses on them and let them float up until the explode.

http://waterpoweredcar.com/hydrobooster3.html
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Unread postAuthor: joestue » Sun Jun 29, 2008 1:04 am

scianiac wrote:OK. I am also interested in this subject and have done some research. First of all your alternator is always spinning and not always powering much so are you recovering lost energy from it spinning as long as you don't draw to much current? Second H2 and O2 burn much faster and much hotter than vaporized gasoline so the pressure spike is higher upon ignition. ................ Unlike gasoline hydrogen doesn't detonate during the compression cycle because it takes extreme temperatures to autoignite. So very high compression ratios could be used, increasing efficiency.

Does all this help or hurt the system I don't know.

And since I'm already in the process of making a hydro booster I will post how testing goes. Of course if it doesn't work I'm going to fill dry cleaner bags with H2 and O2 put fuses on them and let them float up until the explode.

http://waterpoweredcar.com/hydrobooster3.html



got a few things there i want to underline, and one that is incorrect..

basically that's exactly what i said earlier, but no one was listening.
first off get a more efficient alternator. or modify it so it is, pm me if you wish to do that.
secondly, h2 and o2 can cause the fuel to detonate, but you will hear it first and performance will suck before that happens.."destructively"
H2 and O2 injection work to increase flame speed. basically you have to retard the timing, or you will REDUCE performance.

BTW, has anyone tried direct water injection?

i have a video could send you of a 200 gallon bag of h2 o2 exploding. the youtube quality sucks so bad i took it down.

edit: i just took a look at that site, the retarded timing i mentioned is really only needed when experimenting with cells 10 times the size shown in the write up, btw, use 4 lead acid cells in series, you'll get 4 x the h2 at the same engine load as one 12 volt cell, and 1/4 the heat generation.

ideally you could use 8-9 ventable nickel cadmium batteries in series, at 1.45 to 1.55 volts each and produce 9 times the h2 as one cell, just rig up a float and valve to keep the water level full.

edit: a friend of mine bought a performance chip for his 2006 pickup. 2-3 extra miles per gallon, 20 extra peak horsepower and all that was in torque, he has the dyno test run before and after. it is still guaranteed to pass smog inspection.
anyhow, is is possible the extra o2 effect is modifying the engine parameters? for the better even? after all we know that after 1996 they started messing with the brains in these things. the difference is just too close to say for sure.
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Unread postAuthor: jon_89 » Sun Jun 29, 2008 2:10 am

what about other fuel sources besides browns gas? i read about injecting hydrogen peroxide into the engine.
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Unread postAuthor: psycix » Sun Jun 29, 2008 3:49 am

iknowmy3tables wrote:and solar panel on a car, I'm sorry but that's absolutely retarded, the output per a square inch of solar panel is soooooo low , the beat you can do is charge your low power portable electronics:cell phone, ipod, etc
even worse you have to protect the delicate solar panel from derbies on the highway, and you have to clean it most cars have really dirty roofs. but really wimpy little solar pannel, transforms solar energy into electric, then electric into chemical, and chemical into mechanical (you know a lot of energy is lost every time you change energy type

I am aware of the low (very low) output of solar panels.
The hydrogen alone cannot power your car because of the low production speed, nor would it be enough hydrogen production to significantly increase your mileage BUT:

The solar panel would power the electrolysis cell at ALL times, also when the car is not used. The hydrogen is stored in a tank, and when driving, it is used. Now after a long way driving, the tank will be empty, and your car will just run back on its good old gasoline, however, when not using the car, new hydrogen is generated again.

Depending on how often and for how long you use your car, the mileage is increased by alot or by nothing.
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Unread postAuthor: scianiac » Mon Jun 30, 2008 4:21 am

First of all joestue is right about the timing.

But what about using an alternator as your braking system. As a sort of regenerative braking system for internal combustion cars.

If you really want to increase gas mileage just strip out everything in your car that you don't need, to save weight. Do you really need floor mats? No AC to suck power, no spare tire, no carpeting, no dash board, no extra seats. If you think about how much weight all that adds up to, that's where all your gas is going.

And what about shutting off you your car when doing things like waiting in line at the gas station. It's only better to leave the car on if it's less than ten seconds.
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Unread postAuthor: TurboSuper » Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:43 am

Wouldn't the car's CPU automatically adjust the timing? It does if you run the engine off propane...
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Unread postAuthor: jon_89 » Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:37 am

a/c only changes your mpg like a tenth of a mile.
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Unread postAuthor: iknowmy3tables » Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:30 pm

TurboSuper wrote:Oh, and I hate to break it you Iknowmy3tables, but multiple cars have been run off solar power exclusively.


I know they have I've seen them they're specially to me light made they have huge protruding solar panels they run only only in bright sunny days, and I have lawnmowers with more horsepower, at best you have a parade float. Personally I don't consider that good performance, and I can hardly consider it a car

I did exaggerate how crap solar panels are, a solar panel the size of a car roof can probably power a few cells in the car battery but that's not really worth it at all

The HHO quacks cant be trusted, if you ever notice these sites seem to disappear from time to time, if you googled HHO over a day ago google it again and you won't find the same quacks there, I think there trying to avoid getting caught, since they can not prove their claims you can't trust them

people believe them because they want to believe that they can save money on gas so easily, sort of like how you can get people to believe BS weight loss products, or any scam. you see when ever we believe something it's not because we think its right, we first believe it because we want to eventually we must prove it to ourselves (there are no exceptions), but the more we want to believe it the more BS we will believe in to prove it to ourselves. the HHO quacks sometimes even directly tell you to follow your gut. you can go with unreliable data, gut feelings and want, or the scientific facts.
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