Login    Register
User Information
Username:
Password:
We are a free and open
community, all are welcome.
Click here to Register
Sponsored
Who is online

In total there are 38 users online :: 6 registered, 0 hidden and 32 guests


Most users ever online was 218 on Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:58 pm

Registered users: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], Majestic-12 [Bot], MSNbot Media, Yahoo [Bot] based on users active over the past 5 minutes

The Team
Administrators
Global Moderators
global_moderators.png CS

Camera Cap. not working

All non-spudgun related discussion goes here such as projects, theories, serious questions, etc. All "off-topic" posts (aka useless posting, determined by moderators) will be removed.
Sponsored 
  • Author
    Message

Camera Cap. not working

Unread postAuthor: FishBoy » Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:46 am

ok, yesterday I obtained 2 disposable cameras, and gutted them both. I didn't cut, modify, or solder anything, I just played with one of them by charging it, & touching the leads with a paperclip, steel wool, etc. Anyway, after a few times, it stopped charging, so I put In a new battery but that did nothing. Then I gutted the second camera but It wouldn't charge either. Question- What is wrong with them & how can I fix them?
  • 0

"You polish a turd, it's still a turd"

Remember DYI!!!
User avatar
FishBoy
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 575
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 5:51 am
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: TurboSuper » Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:14 am

Discharging caps by shorting them isn't good for 'em :wink:
  • 0

"If at first you dont succeed, then skydiving is not for you" - Darwin Awards

TurboSuper
Brigadier General
Brigadier General
 
Posts: 986
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:44 pm
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: Floyd » Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:22 am

When you charge, see if you can hear the high pitched whine of them. Sometimes the cameras like to put buttons that come off when you open the case. Look for two strips of metal not doing anything on the circuit and try connecting them if you find them.

As with all things, the more details you give us, the better we'll be able to help you.

Edit: wording and grammar
  • 0

Last edited by Floyd on Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Floyd
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 86
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:42 pm
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: FishBoy » Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:27 am

Ok, I think both capacitors are shot, I'll just get some more.

TurboSuper wrote:Discharging caps by shorting them isn't good for 'em :wink:


What's a better way of discharging them then?
  • 0

"You polish a turd, it's still a turd"

Remember DYI!!!
User avatar
FishBoy
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 575
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 5:51 am
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: TurboSuper » Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:13 am

FishBoy wrote:Ok, I think both capacitors are shot, I'll just get some more.

TurboSuper wrote:Discharging caps by shorting them isn't good for 'em :wink:


What's a better way of discharging them then?


Through a resistor. A low value, high-ish wattage one is good. You can always test the board by seeing if the ~200V is actually present at the terminals when you push the button.
  • 0

"If at first you dont succeed, then skydiving is not for you" - Darwin Awards

TurboSuper
Brigadier General
Brigadier General
 
Posts: 986
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:44 pm
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: Hotwired » Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:38 am

Couldn't possibly tell for sure what the problem is just from words.

I doubt that anything is wrong with the capacitors, I've done terrible things to many many disposable camera circuits and the last thing that's going to go is the capacitor.

As Floyd said, if you can't hear a high pitched whine when you think you have the circuit switched on then its a circuit/battery problem.

I've met two kinds of charging buttons on disposables.

One is a pushbutton that you press once to make a connection between two contacts, let go and it automatically charges to what it's meant to and switches on a LED when it's done.

The other is a sliding switch that presses a bit of metal across two terminals to start charging and it keeps on charging until you switch it back, again a LED will come on when a suitable voltage for the flash to work is achieved. This one has to keep the contact down all the time or charging stops.

The pushbutton type has a little springy metal disk under the plastic button which you press to start charging.

The slider type generally has the metal that bridges the two contacts separate from the circuit board (so it would have fallen out when the camera was dismantled) and all you'll see are two contact points or strips where it would have gone. That needs to be bridged with a bit of wire or something held or soldered across them.


Just in case, just check the battery is in the right way round and is touching the two terminals properly, it is basic stuff but the terminals don't really hold the battery too well once the case is removed.
  • 0

User avatar
Hotwired
Lieutenant General
Lieutenant General
 
Posts: 2599
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 5:51 am
Location: UK
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: i-will » Mon Oct 27, 2008 1:28 am

there is a little black component with 3 leadss=. if u use the charge circuit too much in a short time that little component heats up and goes out. it's happened to me a good number of times and is the only reason that it won't charge (besides a dead battery).
  • 0

WHY PAY FOR IT WHEN U CAN MAKE IT?
User avatar
i-will
2nd Lieutenant
2nd Lieutenant
 
Posts: 245
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:04 am
Reputation: 0

Sponsored

Sponsor
 


Unread postAuthor: jimmy101 » Mon Oct 27, 2008 11:00 am

i-will wrote:there is a little black component with 3 leadss=. if u use the charge circuit too much in a short time that little component heats up and goes out. it's happened to me a good number of times and is the only reason that it won't charge (besides a dead battery).

That "little black component with 3 leads" would be a transistor. Cycling the flash too fast may well fry it. I would think though that as long as you are powering the cicuit with a AA or AAA battery it won't cycle fast enough to hurt anything as long as you haven't compromised the circuit in any way. For example, putting any kind of a short across the photocap.

If you are using a beefier power source (like a couple AAs, Cs or Ds) then you might be able to cycle fast enough to cook the transistor.

In my experience, the two most likely causes of a dead board are;

1. You let the HV spark to something on the circuit board that it wasn't supposed to. The transistor(s) and diode(s) ont he board will be instantly cooked if they every see the HV ignition spark. They will also be cooked if they see the 300V on the photocap in the wrong way. If there is no spark path for the HV igntion spark it will spark where you don't want it to. That'll cook the transitors and diodes on the circuit board.

2. You hooked up an inductive load (like an ignitoin coil) to the cicuit board and the back EMF (voltage pulse) when the coil cycled put a big negative going voltage back into the board. This can easily fry a transistor (which will typically only handle a few volts backwards) or a diode (which really don't like a couple KV applied the wrong way). If you use an igntion coild sometype of snubber circuit ( a diode or capacitor) is often needed.
  • 0

Image

jimmy101
Lieutenant General
Lieutenant General
 
Posts: 3129
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:48 am
Location: Greenwood, Indiana
Country: United States (us)
Reputation: 7

Unread postAuthor: rp181 » Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:40 pm

to prevent back emf, a antiparrallel diode with the inductive load is all thats needed. snubber circuits are to limit voltage and current rise (there may be other types i dont know about).
  • 0

User avatar
rp181
Brigadier General
Brigadier General
 
Posts: 1090
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:47 pm
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: jimmy101 » Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:55 am

Actually, "snubber circuits" include everything from a diode or cap to more complex circuits like RCs and RLCs. So, like a said, a diode or cap is a snubber since they do indeed limit the voltage and current rise that occurs when you remove current from an inductive load.

You need the snubber to protect the charging circuitry from the back EMF. However, a "too efficient" snubber will actually decrease the voltage from a step-up transformer like an ignition coil. In automotive ignition circuits (the old type with points, rotor and coil) a cap is used as the snubber instead of a diode since a diode is too good of a snubber and will significantly drop the HV from the coil. A cap is used because it can be tweaked (by changing its capacitance) to provide some protection for the points without limiting the coil's HV too much.
  • 0

Image

jimmy101
Lieutenant General
Lieutenant General
 
Posts: 3129
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:48 am
Location: Greenwood, Indiana
Country: United States (us)
Reputation: 7

Unread postAuthor: TurboSuper » Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:04 pm

Hai...he said he was shorting the leads with steel wool and paperclips, those don't qualify as inductive loads in my book.
  • 0

"If at first you dont succeed, then skydiving is not for you" - Darwin Awards

TurboSuper
Brigadier General
Brigadier General
 
Posts: 986
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:44 pm
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: rp181 » Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:54 pm

everything is inductive, just to a different degree =)

Shorting does not do anything unless its rapidly (10's of times in a second). Plus, steel wool and paperclips are pretty high resistance.
  • 0

User avatar
rp181
Brigadier General
Brigadier General
 
Posts: 1090
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:47 pm
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: jimmy101 » Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:50 pm

TurboSuper wrote:Hai...he said he was shorting the leads with steel wool and paperclips, those don't qualify as inductive loads in my book.

True, that is why rp181 and myself were discussing things in general that'll kill the photoflash board and ways of preventing it.

Killing the board while shorting the cap ... most likely cause of a dead board is that something on the board shorted to the cap before the cap shorted to itself. There are several traces and solders on the board very close to the photocap. And, the full 300+V is pressent on the traces and any solder joints on the board that are connected to the photocap.

Often the shutter trigger contacts are also at 300+V, through via a 10Meg or so resistor, so they won't spark but will still fry the semiconductors on the board.
  • 0

Image

jimmy101
Lieutenant General
Lieutenant General
 
Posts: 3129
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:48 am
Location: Greenwood, Indiana
Country: United States (us)
Reputation: 7

Unread postAuthor: jonnyboy » Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:09 pm

We need some pictures. Everyone kind is different so where one switch might be on brand X, brand Y doesn't even have one. If the flash leads are touching( 2 flexible pieces of metal) the cap won't charge (thats one thing thats pretty consistent with disposable cameras).
  • 0

mobile chernobyl wrote:I can shoot a Canuter Valve off my '82 Chevy Ram F150 AT LEAST 3/4 Mile with 'ma cannon made of soup cans duct taped together, then I just squirt some bacardi 151 in the chamber and hold up my cigarrete lighta and WHOOSH! That thing flies at least 3/4 mile
User avatar
jonnyboy
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 591
Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 1:20 pm
Location: Williamston MI USA
Reputation: 0

Return to Non-Spudgun Related Discussion

Who is online

Registered users: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], Majestic-12 [Bot], MSNbot Media, Yahoo [Bot]

Reputation System ©'