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The KBP GM-94 GL help

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The KBP GM-94 GL help

Unread postAuthor: JDP12 » Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:04 pm

Hey all, the GM-94 ( http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl27-e.htm ) recently caught my eye and i became fascinated with it. I started doing some research, but couldn't uncover much on how it worked.

I sort of assumed it was almost like an upside down shotgun, and the shell carrier would sort of "part" and the shell would pop down through it...

but in the picture of it open It didn't really look like it- does anyone have any ideas on how it possibly loads?

Thanks,

ILTBTU
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Unread postAuthor: Gippeto » Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:21 pm

GM-94 is manually operated, magazine fed weapon. Tubular magazine holds three rounds and is located above the barrel. Magazine loading gate is located at the top of the receiver. The sliding, rifled barrel is located below the receiver. Breech of the weapon is stationary, and for reloading barrel is moved forward (to eject spent case), then moved rearward to load fresh round from magazine above. Barrel is enclosed into polymer heatshield / handguard.


Sounds similar to an inverted, pump action shotgun to me as well.

Only real difference mechanically is that the barrel slides with the pump instead of the breech doing so.

Bloody good thinking, that'll take several inches off the LOA. :)
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Unread postAuthor: JDP12 » Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:24 pm

yea but how would it keep the shell from just falling, but still get into the barrel? It seems like the carrier would almost get in the way unless it does as i suggested, but in the picture it just shows a little piece of metal, and im trying to figure that out...

hmm
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Unread postAuthor: Pookydarts » Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:55 pm

G'day! I just had a look and after a bit of googling found a picture of a shell for the thing to see if it had a rim on it,
http://www.kbptula.ru/eng/str/grenades/gm94.htm
I havn't pulled a pump action down but I imagine it might be similar to a lever action in that the shell is captured by the rim and then lifted up (or dropped down,) however many degrees to allow it to feed into the chamber.
I saw a youtube video ("Chinese repeating crossbow" should find it...) that gave me an idea for a gravity (or spring) fed repeater, my only spudgun on this site "First submission" was going to be a slide-action pump gun and has a twin "o" ring barrel seal but I just wanted to see it running so threw out two days work on the slide bit... :roll: [/url]
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Unread postAuthor: JDP12 » Thu Jan 01, 2009 11:22 pm

could be.... but I"m not sure..

any other opinions??
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Unread postAuthor: Gippeto » Thu Jan 01, 2009 11:27 pm

Can't find too much about this one. I did find out that it is based on the Tula Rm-93 shotgun.

This lead me to...

The RM-96 "RYS" system of shotguns has been primarily designed for military combat and police operations, and for civilian purposes (while the Russian gun laws still forbid most of the civilian population to obtain shotguns, them are very lax as far as it concerns long arms of all kinds purported them are unable to fire in selective-fire/fully-automatic mode).
It is a series of boltless, DAO, inverted-cycle pump-action shotguns with upfolding metal stock.
The feeding tube is placed upside the barrel, instead than downside like in the conventional pump-action shotgun design. The shell is chambered by moving the slide-action FORTH AND BACK instead than back and forth, and the shell falls down from the tube to the chamber via its own weight. Being the RM-93 "Rys" a boltless weapon, there is no such thing as a "chamber" in the real sense of the word, anyway: having the gun no bolt, the area between the trigger housing and the slide action is the only thing close to a receiver that it has, and the "chamber" is composed by the space between the closed slide-action and the barrel, in which the shell is to be found when the pull of the trigger releases the striker in it. When the round is fired and a new one is chambered, the spent shell is pushed downside by the new one falling, and falls to the ground vertically by its own weight; an ejection system that basically puts no problem in quicky changing the shoulder from which the weapon is fired, and thus the "RYS" shotguns can adapt to right-handed or left-handed users undifferently.
Despite the fact that the weapon is boltless, no malfunction, misfire or accidental explosion has been ever reported to this weapon. But the "RYS" design has in fact some drawbacks.
First of all, the DAO trigger pull is quite heavy; and the "forth-and-back" slide-action system is something unusual that even the hardest shotgunners will have to get used to.


Still not as good as field stripping pics, but it's a start.
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Unread postAuthor: JDP12 » Thu Jan 01, 2009 11:31 pm

hmm interesting piece. I understand it falls according to its own weight, but what keeps the shell from simply falling and not going into the barrel. Is it purely a timing thing? So that as the barrel is going back... teh shell falls at the perfect time?

That seems like it could possibly be a bit unreliable however?

hmm..look at the neostead- http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh08-e.htm
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Unread postAuthor: Gippeto » Thu Jan 01, 2009 11:37 pm

The irony. I was just going to suggest the same to you. :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeoStead_2000

Includes some patent pics.

Looking at your link now.


Edit: Another "top loader" you can check into is the Halo mfg p-12.

Edit2: My bad, it's now the Monolith Arms P-12.
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Unread postAuthor: JDP12 » Fri Jan 02, 2009 10:37 am

Huh interesting... it appears the neostead uses a spring loaded lever or something similar to push the shell down..

but my question still remains- how do they prevent the shell being loaded from just falling straight down.. It still looks like its an issue of timing- the shell drops down right when the barrel is coming back.

THose drawings helped a ton..

after a closer look in this drawing- http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... d_pic5.png

take a close look at the rails beneath the shell that move the barrel. is it possible the shell sits on these? In the drawing, it appears it does.

Could that be it?
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Unread postAuthor: Gippeto » Fri Jan 02, 2009 10:55 am

It sure looks like "it". :)
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Unread postAuthor: JDP12 » Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:10 am

:P lol.

I wonder what the point of part #62 (the bent piece of metal) is then? Is it to stop the shell from popping up in any way perhaps? Or perhaps to allow it to feed easier from various firing positions- tilted or something perhaps?
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Unread postAuthor: Gippeto » Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:43 am

Part of the feed mech.

As the barrel/pump goes forward, the rails pop the rear of the shell into #62, causing it to swing up.

Meanwhile...#38 on the barrel, hits #30, causing a shell to be released from the magazine.

This shell is pushed back into the ramp(#62) and directed downward.

This places force on the spent shell, helping with the ejection.

As the barrel/pump continues forward, the spent shell is ejected and the loaded round is directed to sit on the rails.

There is likely a spring on #62 which applies force to keep it down. Just not shown.
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Unread postAuthor: JDP12 » Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:44 am

ah i see now.

Thanks for all the help guys- we've solved the mystery
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