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Got my lathe!

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Got my lathe!

Unread postAuthor: john bunsenburner » Fri May 29, 2009 11:08 am

Well i have just received my Rotwerk lathe, i imagined it was bigger, but oh well i am extremely happy. Now there is a nylon rod in the post and I should be getting a few alli and maybe an iron(EN 10025) rods. But I have noticed that I have absolutely no tools and so I would like to ask: What is a good set of tools to have(what tools should I get?) and in what price range are we talking?
For my gun i will need to be able to do the following:
Drill holes of different sizes, some very deep(30cm!)
Thread outer and inner threads in metric sizes on different diameters
Reduce diameter of parts of the rod
Build this
Cut O-ring grooves

Well that is pretty much it, also if you guys want pics of the lathe(just for fun), then tell me and i will make some.

Before using the lathe properly I will have to clean it all and oil it up, iv made the mistake of thinking: One little try won't hurt. now the lube(and there is a crap load on it!) is mixed with saw dust, a gross combination, but I will manage, and there is not too many parts.

All in all this is an awsome machine and I hope it will fulfill my needs, i am really happy I got this(though who knows, iv not used it properly yet).
Last but not least I have to point out I will mostly use metal and plastic to work with(well just for making pistons and the like), so no need to add stuff about woad.

Thanks for your comments, advice and inspiration. And I hope I'll be able to return the favor with some nice cannons
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Re: Got my lathe!

Unread postAuthor: Technician1002 » Fri May 29, 2009 11:28 am

john bunsenburner wrote:Well i have just received my Rotwerk lathe, i imagined it was bigger, but oh well i am extremely happy. Now there is a nylon rod in the post and I should be getting a few alli and maybe an iron(EN 10025) rods. But I have noticed that I have absolutely no tools and so I would like to ask: What is a good set of tools to have(what tools should I get?) and in what price range are we talking?
For my gun i will need to be able to do the following:
Drill holes of different sizes, some very deep(30cm!)
Thread outer and inner threads in metric sizes on different diameters
Reduce diameter of parts of the rod
Build this
Cut O-ring grooves

Well that is pretty much it, also if you guys want pics of the lathe(just for fun), then tell me and i will make some.

Before using the lathe properly I will have to clean it all and oil it up, iv made the mistake of thinking: One little try won't hurt. now the lube(and there is a crap load on it!) is mixed with saw dust, a gross combination, but I will manage, and there is not too many parts.

All in all this is an awsome machine and I hope it will fulfill my needs, i am really happy I got this(though who knows, iv not used it properly yet).
Last but not least I have to point out I will mostly use metal and plastic to work with(well just for making pistons and the like), so no need to add stuff about woad.

Thanks for your comments, advice and inspiration. And I hope I'll be able to return the favor with some nice cannons


Photos :!:

If you have a welding torch and a grinding wheel, visit an auto repair shop and beg for old valves. The hardened valve stems make great tools. Cut the heads off with a torch and grind to a round nose tool, thread cutting tool, a narrow slot tool for o rings and buy a good cut off tool. 80% of your work will involve these easy to make tools.

Some info is here. It is possible to use round tool stock if you grind a flat on one side to fit the tool post.

http://www.sherline.com/grinding.htm

I recommend making tools as even if you buy them, you will have to keep them sharp, so you will be grinding them anyway. A round nose tool is best for rapidly making a object smaller in diameter. A pointed tool leaves grooves a round nose tool doesn't.

As you use the lathe it will become obvious as to what tools will need to be shaped to make various inside and outside cuts and into corners, grooves, etc. Before long you will have a range of sizes of basic cutting tools. You will wind up with over a dozen tools of which you will do most of your work with about 4 of them.

Another good link to make a tool for facing round stock.
http://www.mini-lathe.com/Mini_lathe/Tool_grinding/tool_grinding.htm
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Unread postAuthor: Carlman » Fri May 29, 2009 11:34 am

Vote 1 for pic :sign8:
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Unread postAuthor: john bunsenburner » Fri May 29, 2009 11:56 am

I am definately goign to grind my own tools how ever, at this point I do not own a grindign wheel so really I am stuck to buying the most nesasary for a while until I got eanoth spare cash to buy one, afterall they are not free.
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Unread postAuthor: Technician1002 » Fri May 29, 2009 12:13 pm

john bunsenburner wrote:I am definately goign to grind my own tools how ever, at this point I do not own a grindign wheel so really I am stuck to buying the most nesasary for a while until I got eanoth spare cash to buy one, afterall they are not free.


Start with a cut off parting tool (Must have) a round nose tool, a boring tool, thread tool, internal thread tool,and some type of facing tool.

If buying a set, one like this is highly recommended.
http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2250&category=8
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Unread postAuthor: john bunsenburner » Fri May 29, 2009 12:37 pm

And a set like that covers most my needs? For now?
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Unread postAuthor: Technician1002 » Fri May 29, 2009 2:45 pm

john bunsenburner wrote:And a set like that covers most my needs? For now?


Not quite. A boring tool and a tool for inside and outside thread will make a nice set. :D
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Unread postAuthor: Moonbogg » Fri May 29, 2009 3:09 pm

Here...you will be making pistons and other things with o-ring grooves right? I ran across o-ring groovers here

http://www.mcmaster.com/#o-ring-products/=236ijq

Congrats on the lathe! PICS PLEASE. I would love a lathe. There is a shop that welcomed me to using their conventional machines but there would be nothing like having a nice little mini for cannons right here at home.
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Unread postAuthor: Gippeto » Fri May 29, 2009 6:38 pm

Congrats on the lathe John! :D

As far as tooling goes, you do have a few options. These are High Speed Steel (otherwise known as HSS), brazed carbide, and indexable carbide.

Indexable carbide is the most expensive form of tooling to buy, and to use. BUT, you don't need a grinder. A fine diamond file will suffice for "touching up" the cutting edge.

Indexable carbides will break and chip at any excuse. :x I won't recommend that you get them for now, you don't really need them.

HSS is the least expensive option to buy, but you need a grinder to make use of it. With the grinder and some "blanks", you can make most any tool you will need. Even "form" tools for special tasks (round bottom o-ring grooves, or o-ring grooves in the end of a bar) can be easily made.

Brazed carbide is a sort of "middle" ground. It costs more than HSS, is less "multi purpose", but will cut harder steels or allow heavier removal of material. You will need a grinder and a "special" grinding wheel to sharpen these. (silicone carbide)

HSS is the best value in the long run IMHO.

A nice bit of info to have;

http://www.metalartspress.com/PDFs/Shar ... _Tools.pdf

And, an oldy but a goody :D

http://www.akpilot.net/How%20To%20Grind ... 0Tools.pdf


With a grinder, and a selection of HSS blanks, you can make any cutter you'll need. Cheaply, and without waiting on the post office. :)

Inside threads can be cut with a boring bar.

http://www.truetex.com/boring.htm

30cm is a VERY deep hole to drill. Why do you need 30cm?

For smaller balls,(or other shapes) you can make a form tool from a HSS blank.
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Unread postAuthor: jmccalip » Fri May 29, 2009 8:03 pm

Gippeto wrote:
Indexable carbide is the most expensive form of tooling to buy, and to use. BUT, you don't need a grinder. A fine diamond file will suffice for "touching up" the cutting edge.

Indexable carbides will break and chip at any excuse. :x I won't recommend that you get them for now, you don't really need them.



Funny, I would recommend nothing but indexable carbide...

If you're on a budget, these are great($20 at local HF store):

Image

You get 15 'tips', and they are MUCH better quality than the disposable cutting bits. I bought the disposable ones before and the radius was TERRIBLE. Half of them were chipped, and they were just not good quality. It's CHEAPER to buy the indexable ones because you're not paying for all that extra steel stock.

I have no problem with the inserts chipping or breaking.


If you have the money....

And you want real quality, get a holder for some of these inserts. The coated ones last a lot longer. The holder is expensive, but the inserts can be found for about $4 each. They are much nicer than anything grinded, plus they are coated too.



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Unread postAuthor: Gippeto » Sat May 30, 2009 1:05 am

Unfortunately, we don't all have an HF around the corner. :(

The "el cheapo" (Chinese, C6) indexable carbides I get cost me $10 (regular price)each, plus freight. Or I can drive for an hour and a half to pick them up.

I don't want to talk about how much the "better" ones would cost me. :evil:

Although, ebay may provide an alternative. :idea:

The tool holders (5 piece set, 1/2") cost me ~$70 (shipped) when I bought them.

An HSS blank can be sharpened many dozen times, ground to any required shape, and costs me $2.

Prices depend on where you are it seems. :roll:
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Unread postAuthor: john bunsenburner » Sat May 30, 2009 2:30 am

Ok so I think ill stick with HSS and see if I can get hold of a grinder for around 50$. The 30cm hole is needed because I am making a piston housing and bolt action mech in one big piece. This allows me to have a better connection and a higher overall strength, and it makes a lot of things a lot easier that they would otherwise be. My barrel will weigh approx. 300grams you tell me how long I must make the bolt action "tube" in which the barrel slides in to get optimum stablility. Also I noticed that i have a 3jaw chuck with a hole in them(and i really can't think of what they are called) which makes drilling considrably easier.

About the threading: It seems extremely complicated todo, with all the angles. My lathe does have gearing for threading(though I am absolutely clueless which one of the gears that came with the lathe is the right one, it seems like it could easily thread something now, don't know why but it seems "right" so ill just give it a try with a piece of scrap and ill consult the grease covered instruction booklet.) But does threading(inside and outside) just look complicated and is easily done with bit of practise or is it hard todo?

Thanks for all your help you guys, as a reward here are some pics:
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Unread postAuthor: SubsonicSpud » Sat May 30, 2009 3:45 am

That is a similar type to the one I have.

It is best if you disassemble and clean the lathe before using it, to get rid of all the crapy chinese grease of it. Also worth lapping the compound and cross-slide and adjusting it. It makes a world of difference on the performance. Here is a link with some tips:
http://www.mini-lathe.com/Mini_lathe/Tuning/tuning.htm

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Unread postAuthor: john bunsenburner » Sat May 30, 2009 2:35 pm

its the german original, best quality lathe and awsome grease, this thing cost me close to 1000$ and is GOOD QUALITY. Any more advice on the tools?
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Unread postAuthor: Technician1002 » Sat May 30, 2009 4:20 pm

:D Sweet. You got one with a 4 way toolpost. Nice.
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