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Rant on nerf modding

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Unread postAuthor: btrettel » Sun May 30, 2010 8:03 pm

MindWarrior wrote:btrettel, your doom on nerf haven correct? If not then I apologize, I've visited your blog and I've seen your stuff, its pretty impressive with the fang project you have there.


Yes, that's me. I don't hide the fact that I'm disappointed with the NIC. I'm just speaking my mind. :wink:

To make something more clear, I don't have a problem with most of what people do. My main problems with the NIC involve how it is run.
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Unread postAuthor: iknowmy3tables » Wed Jun 02, 2010 1:03 am

yeah, since I made this thread I've started to careless about the weird mods, I did understate the effects of singling nerf guns correctly, but I still wouldn't. Since then I've looked around on the forums and I definitely see the problems with NIC. I describe it as the big brother-little brother effect. You know how little brother say that their big brothers are bullies, and big brothers always say that their little brother are annoying and obnoxious, and in reality they're both right and both of them exacerbate conflicts. It's kinda like that. There are quite a few incompetent nerf kids who get on the forums, and in response the more competent people start flaming everything and throwing the book at people, and then everyone else does it because it's the "smart" thing to do.

If you check out nerf haven you'll see that there are way more locked threads that end with the mods leaving big F-you enjoy your suspension messages. Here we'll actually humor a noob's idea and sometimes a good idea rises in the discussion, but at nerf haven they don't even allow idea/concept threads
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Unread postAuthor: jrrdw » Wed Jun 02, 2010 5:27 am

To the front of the line.
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Unread postAuthor: PVC Arsenal 17 » Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:50 pm

I've had mixed experiences with the Nerf community. I've only posted on their forums a handful of times since I started my Nerf project about two years ago. Overall I'd say their reactions to my pneumatic guns were positive, but I have gotten a few ignorant comments.

From a moderator on NHQ:
"yeh... you realize that that setup has the potential wound someone very badly? I would be reluctant to shoot that at anyone or thing. Seems it would have as much power or more then a paintball gun."

From a regular member on NerfHaven in response to my TFS-Semi:
"This is a nerf forum."


It seems like many members of the community are only really interested in the work of the few big name members like Boltsniper and CaptainSlug, who posted in my thread twice simply to make comments unrelated to my topic and without so much as acknowledging what I shared, which I found a bit rude. Still, he was helpful a while back when I asked him a question.

They do seem open to new ideas, but more so when they're presented by the few I mentioned before. NerfHaven's administration makes this especially evident when they lock "concept threads" by common members but not those by CaptainSlug, for example.


I understand that Nerfers have their "traditions" when it comes to the operation of Nerf guns. I've received some criticism for trying to achieve high rate of fire guns. While I respect that they have certain norms they like to stick to, it might benefit the hobby to open up to new things.


I don't have much else to say besides that. They don't really bother me. I'm patient with whatever faults they might have. No community is perfect.
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Unread postAuthor: iknowmy3tables » Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:50 am

They do seem open to new ideas, but more so when they're presented by the few I mentioned before. NerfHaven's administration makes this especially evident when they lock "concept threads" by common members but not those by CaptainSlug, for example.


yeah but I think CaptainSlug has sort of given up on major innovations except for trivial adjustments to traditional nerf methods, he hasn't done much significant stuff since this comment that seemed to come out of friggin no where on this thread for a homemade semi-auto
I'm never going to finish this because I don't want to encourage complexity anymore. Complexity and Nerf Wars do not mix well.


But I don't want to pick on individuals, because it's really a community problem. My hope for the Nerf contest we setup is that we can impress people in the NIC with stuff they don't typically see in their communities so perhaps they be inspired or challenged to try new things. Sure I don't mind if some of them stick to traditional and simple ways, but I know many of them would like to see more advance Nerf guns and innovations and they shouldn't be held back from pursuing that.
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Unread postAuthor: YakMan » Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:02 am

PVC Arsenal 17 wrote:It seems like many members of the community are only really interested in the work of the few big name members like Boltsniper and CaptainSlug


I just wanted to put in my 2c on this back-and-forth with the Nerf guys. I think you are the next Boltsniper or CaptainSlug, and I came back to Nerf and started lurking on Spudfiles because of your work. It takes some time for the Nerf guys to warm up to an idea, but you did the most important thing right: you built something that works. If you keep doing that, you'll be the next "god" of Nerf. btrettel deserves a lot of credit here, too, for trying to bridge the gap with the Nerf community, but (as far as I know -- I've been gone for awhile) he's never had the same kind of reliable, obviously-easy-to-build prototype that you did. That's what the Nerf guys want to see.

PVC Arsenal 17 wrote:They do seem open to new ideas, but more so when they're presented by the few I mentioned before. NerfHaven's administration makes this especially evident when they lock "concept threads" by common members but not those by CaptainSlug, for example.


This attitude was many years in the making. The bar for Nerf modding is set far lower (as is, I'm sure, the average age) than the one for spudding, so there's necessarily a lot more crap floating around in the Nerf community. This means that people are very intolerant of bullshit, and you must prove your point with a practical prototype or nobody will listen. This is sad, but it's the only way to avoid lots of the pointless mods you guys are making fun of here.

The draconian admins on Nerfhaven were pretty surprising, though, even for me. It makes the forums feel like a schoolyard where some of the bullies have bigger sticks than others, and I don't care for it.

PVC Arsenal 17 wrote:I understand that Nerfers have their "traditions" when it comes to the operation of Nerf guns. I've received some criticism for trying to achieve high rate of fire guns. While I respect that they have certain norms they like to stick to, it might benefit the hobby to open up to new things.


I think the people who don't want the game to change are in the minority, and most people are willing to see the game change in response to a reliable, easily built homemade. The +bow was just such a change. I think most people stick to their norms simply because they're conditioned to do what works. This is what generates the negative responses to pneumatics -- most Nerfers are unconvinced that it can work the way you claim. When they see that it can, and that pneumatics aren't necessarily more powerful than a +bow, they'll start to allow them at games.

PVC Arsenal 17 wrote:I don't have much else to say besides that. They don't really bother me. I'm patient with whatever faults they might have. No community is perfect.


Thanks for being patient -- they'll appreciate you one day. Keep up the good work.
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Unread postAuthor: btrettel » Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:42 pm

Thanks for the comments YakMan. I had wondered if you were THE YakMan.

This attitude was many years in the making. The bar for Nerf modding is set far lower (as is, I'm sure, the average age) than the one for spudding, so there's necessarily a lot more crap floating around in the Nerf community. This means that people are very intolerant of bullshit, and you must prove your point with a practical prototype or nobody will listen. This is sad, but it's the only way to avoid lots of the pointless mods you guys are making fun of here.


This makes a lot of sense in terms of developing this attitude. Unfortunately, I think more people act that way to "own" others today and that as more people do it, the more acceptable it seems. But I can see your explanation as a way this developed.

Frankly, I would prefer if people asked for help more often. Maybe they'll learn a thing or two and ask less stupid questions in the future. It's worked well here.

I think the people who don't want the game to change are in the minority, and most people are willing to see the game change in response to a reliable, easily built homemade. The +bow was just such a change. I think most people stick to their norms simply because they're conditioned to do what works. This is what generates the negative responses to pneumatics -- most Nerfers are unconvinced that it can work the way you claim. When they see that it can, and that pneumatics aren't necessarily more powerful than a +bow, they'll start to allow them at games.


This is very true. No one I've met has considered banning my guns after I've demonstrated their use in person. And once people know they can make the gun, it seems a lot less threatening.

Unfortunately, many gun bans have more to do with the "I don't have that and I'm too lazy to make it" attitude many people have. I'm not certain what we can do to combat this.

As for CS, I wouldn't feel too discouraged iknowmy3tables That post is fairly old. Less than a month ago he hinted that he might make a QEV gun. I like his work and am very interested in whatever he produces.

FANG 4 should come up some time this summer. :)
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