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Nerf Dart Gun Challenge (now open) disscussion thread

All non-spudgun related discussion goes here such as projects, theories, serious questions, etc. All "off-topic" posts (aka useless posting, determined by moderators) will be removed.
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Are you intrested in participating in this challenge?

I'd like to participate in this challenge
16
46%
I think this is a good idea, I might participate
15
43%
I don't like the idea of this challenge
4
11%
 
Total votes : 35
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Unread postAuthor: iknowmy3tables » Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:08 am

do we need a deadline for signing up
I'm fine with a submission deadline March1, I'll put this in the first post
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Last edited by iknowmy3tables on Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Unread postAuthor: JDP12 » Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:12 am

Eh I spose not really
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Unread postAuthor: SEAKING9006 » Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:37 pm

Alrighty then! Now that this thing is (semi) confirmed, time for me to start doing a little designing.

Since I just finished a nerf gun of my own, I'll use that as a platform prototype and build a refined derivative. The nerf gun I just finished, well.... I wouldn't call it anywhere near 'refined', and the finished contest piece is going to be a much different animal. Failures to extract and failures to eject are far to frequent, and it can't chamber rounds on it's own. Not to mention the thing leaks air out the receiver like it's MADE to do that, and the extractor is too picky to use simple cartridges. I only have ONE that it likes, and it's very finicky to get the taper right on the rim. Not to mention I still haven't ported the barrel yet, so accuracy is in the 10' range and half the time it fails to clear the barrel. I'll be using a simplified cartridge in my contest entry with a redesigned bolt face so the damn thing will work correctly. Still gonna upload the old thing to the showcase once I get around to pictures and a video.

Now, to go look at pipe dimensions. :D
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Unread postAuthor: JDP12 » Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:47 pm

That's what I'm doin right now seaking LOL
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Unread postAuthor: SpudBlaster15 » Tue Nov 17, 2009 7:32 pm

Nerf guns? Are you serious? Wow, that's about as interesting as watching paint dry. I thought people would be focused on improving the power, penetration, range, and accuracy of real launchers, not building kids toys that will be hard pressed to penetrate a cardboard box at 20 feet. Ah, well, nothing is forcing me to enter, so I suppose I'll just avoid these threads. Still, this diverts the effort that would otherwise be put into advancing the hobby of spudding.
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Unread postAuthor: JDP12 » Tue Nov 17, 2009 7:42 pm

Hmm I don't really think that was called for. I'm entering this mainly for humans vs zombies at college next year.. It's not like I've abandoned normal spudding or any of us. I also plan on usig a lot of the concepts from this for real launchers. I'm using it as a test bed so to speak.

It's called a fun diversion. If you don't want to do it don't post negative comments in the thread about it
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Unread postAuthor: maverik94 » Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:05 pm

would springers work for this contest?
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Unread postAuthor: btrettel » Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:00 am

I've been very busy lately but would like to post that I'm interested in this contest and plan on starting something substantial in January.

Springers are okay. It's Nerf, after all.

I'll post something more substantial in a few days.
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Unread postAuthor: SpudBlaster15 » Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:50 am

ilovetoblowthingsup wrote:Hmm I don't really think that was called for. I'm entering this mainly for humans vs zombies at college next year.. It's not like I've abandoned normal spudding or any of us. I also plan on usig a lot of the concepts from this for real launchers. I'm using it as a test bed so to speak.

It's called a fun diversion. If you don't want to do it don't post negative comments in the thread about it


I just realized that this thread is in the NSGR section. For some reason I thought it was in the general spudgun forum. I apologize for imposing as I did.
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Unread postAuthor: JDP12 » Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:28 pm

I'm hoping to get access to my dads cad program at work soon as I really would like precise plans
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Unread postAuthor: SEAKING9006 » Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:08 pm

We might also want to add in another scoring category in addition to the rest; best use of tools.

Building a very good quality bolt action gun with only hand tools and a dremel should definitely score higher than a semi auto made on full machine tools.


And Spudblaster, I'm disappointed in you. I would expect better from a member of three years. Power, range, penetration, and accuracy are not the only things in life. Among the other things to consider are practicality, simplicity/complexity (polar opposites of course, you can't go for both with a single project), ingenuity, aesthetics, and of course, fun-factor. Sure, they may be kids toys in store bought form, but once you start getting into things like HvZ and other scenario type things, nerf guns begin to get much more interesting. For example, if you live in an area where there are nerf community organizers, or at a college that hosts HvZ games, you are going to get a whole lot more use out of a simple 1/2in PVC nerf blowgun than a rifled combustion that shoots potatoes. Also, there is a (small) but existent market for custom built nerf guns. If you were to build a high quality repeater on the cheap, you might find a few nerf enthusiasts willing to pay good money for a well built blaster. This makes building a nerf gun that you are not only happy with, but able to reproduce easily much more attractive to build. Also, it's a hell of a lot easier to chamber a nerf dart than it is to chamber a BB, especially with the scale of the materials most people have available. I'd sooner try to build a full auto nerf gun than a full auto airsoft gun (barring clouds and vortexes, but I think those have hit a zenith in development anyway).

tl;dr
Don't whine. It's easy and fun to do. You sound like we have some kind of 'goal' to reach for spudding technology. Besides, you think a good full auto mech for a nerf gun wouldn't count as advancement if you can scale it up to a golf ball gun?
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Unread postAuthor: iknowmy3tables » Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:16 am

I don't blame you spudblaster15 for saying his opinion, of all the things you can shoot stuff with (ie. firearm, bb-guns, paintball guns, spudguns) the shooting of nerf guns is the least interesting, and by diverting attention to nerf gun we're not advancing power and penetration, and without power and penetration you don't get that fantastic mygunjustmadebigboomteehee feeling that is a huge part of the spudgun hobby, but seaking is right there is more to spudding than accuracy range and penitration
You also can't forget that the real fun in nerf guns lies in the harmlessness so you can shoot willing friends (even the wimps who wont do paintball or airsoft), in public, without a risk of hurting bystanders, or getting arrested so you can use them for awesome college campus games like Humans vs Zombies.

also one of the reasons for starting this contest was for the pride of spudding. because the we were unimpressive with online nerf modding communities, we're gonna use our skills to show the world some spudder style nerf guns

We might also want to add in another scoring category in addition to the rest; best use of tools.

I think I know what you mean, how about creative use of materials,

this is pretty important and it's been a tradition in this spudding community you might recall the famous Ghetto Award on these forums
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Unread postAuthor: JDP12 » Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:52 am

Yea that would be a good idea I like it
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Unread postAuthor: kenbo0422 » Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:44 am

So far this is what I've gathered from this discussion:

SAFETY-Thanks to btrettel for the great guidelines. A dart must have a soft tip, NO hard tips allowed. It cannot exceed a KED of 0.015 J/mm^2. That is equal to a 1.1g, .53” dart fired at a speed of 62 m/s. Please see here for more detail.


I'm confused. Would someone be willing to put up a requirements list? Officially?
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Unread postAuthor: btrettel » Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:47 am

I'll post how I think the contest should be run tonight. Note that I can no run the contest due to other obligations, but I could make a good list based on what's been suggested and my knowledge of Nerf guns.

My suggestion for limits on velocity and mass is to have a limit on KED as KED should be proportional to pain. We also know how much KED is necessary to cause eye and skin damage, so with a good safety factor we can be sure that the darts are safe. This allows use of any dart size, weight, or velocity given that all three satisfy the KED requirements. Some people have straight out bans on velocities higher than X or weights higher than Y, but that's treating the symptom and not the underlying cause.

But should be have any limits? I don't know. I think it depends on what people want.
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