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Unread postAuthor: archie370 » Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:37 am

Derp Derp, No Nuke flies unless they want to die, no matter what if one nuke goes off by russia or US, the other one retaliates, therefore canceling themselves out, while the good average aussie sits back with a beer and trys to get a donkey drunk :)
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:57 am

MrCrowley wrote:Dictatorship is great for getting things done


That's why it's so damn appealing!

I'm sort of with David Mitchell on this one :D

Though I guess women voting for Obama weren't given much choice thanks to the Romney campaign and its supporters. If I were a woman, I'd vote for Obama without hesitation solely because of his stance on women issues. Unrelated: This is so true, voting for presidents is like picking the shiniest of two turds.


Yup, giant douche or turd sandwich - and it's laughable how the common man thinks that who sits in the president's chair is somehow going to make a difference to how a government actually works.

Again, African Americans voted overwhelmingly for Obama. Racism is OK if you're not white.

Guess what,we've had this conversation before ;)


For me, science is the main issue. I couldn't vote for a party where so many of its representatives are more likely to have faith in 'miracles' than something that actually has an entire field of scientific research backing it. :D
They can believe what they want as long as they can make a distinction between the two when it comes to deciding new laws or what goes in to classroom text books.


True, true. When arguments against abortion revolve around the claim that a cluster of cells less sophisticated than an insect brain has some sort of immaterial soul, well...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUwnMX8ht3U[/youtube]
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Unread postAuthor: jrrdw » Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:48 am

This guy will never get laid again...Todd Akin, or work in government. What a dumb ass!

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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:20 am

IDK what is your problem with this ?? the guy has some point - allow abortion only in cases of rape...

....and you'd get a sudden spike of reported rapes
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Unread postAuthor: velocity3x » Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:01 am

As for me.....there are cases where abortion is warranted, but I don't approve of abortion as just form a form of birth control. If a woman seeks an abortion, she should pay for it....not the tax payer. In the bigger picture, as a man, I think it's not my place to tell women (or anyone) what they will do with their own bodies. It seems to me that most people on this earth are barely qualified to control their own bowels. They shouldn't attempt to control the life of another person.
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:05 pm

I think it's not my place to tell women (or anyone) what they will do with their own bodies
To be honest it's not their body per se... more like 50% their body 50% that of the father

so I think men should have right in abortion. If women are given the right to decide whether they want to have a child or not men should be able to terminate their legal obligations to unwanted children
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Unread postAuthor: jrrdw » Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:08 pm

POLAND_SPUD wrote:IDK what is your problem with this ?? the guy has some point - allow abortion only in cases of rape...

....and you'd get a sudden spike of reported rapes


The innocent would be put through hell on Earth!

My point was written at the top. He ain't getting any...anymore. He's a dumb ass for spouting out with the term "legitimate rape" and "a woman's body has a way to not get pregnant when it's rape". Now he's out of a job.....
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Unread postAuthor: MrCrowley » Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:10 pm

velocity3x wrote:As for me.....there are cases where abortion is warranted, but I don't approve of abortion as just form a form of birth control. If a woman seeks an abortion, she should pay for it....not the tax payer. In the bigger picture, as a man, I think it's not my place to tell women (or anyone) what they will do with their own bodies. It seems to me that most people on this earth are barely qualified to control their own bowels. They shouldn't attempt to control the life of another person.

I wrote out a much longer reply but didn't want to drag the forum in to this too much. I mostly side with what you say (funnily enough, we had similar 'Political Compass' results) although I'm probably a bit more lenient towards 'birth control' abortion than you but I haven't done nearly enough research to formulate a solid stance that I can defend from all sides. So my opinion is a bit more of a broad ideal rather than a narrowly-defined statement that argues when, what, why, where, and how a woman may get an abortion. At the moment, all I can say is:
I trust women to make the right decision more than I trust politicians to make that decision for them.

I say that because I know many abortion laws in US states are not based on sound science and go out of their way to make it as difficult or painful as possible for a woman to have an abortion (such as requiring an ultra sound to try and dissuade the woman with pictures of her unborn child).

This is an interesting blog from the perspective of a female OB/GYN that I occasionally read: http://drjengunter.wordpress.com/
I don't read it so much for the anecdotes as I do for her opinion on laws regarding abortion. Some of the things that actually go in to law in some states are absurd and you wonder if they even bothered to consult an expert.

so I think men should have right in abortion. If women are given the right to decide whether they want to have a child or not men should be able to terminate their legal obligations to unwanted children
I guess in that case women should get compensation if they decide to keep or abort the baby. Either way, the process isn't pleasant and the responsibility is half ours. Considering how much some people get for embarrassment suffered when they are fired from their job and their boss maybe yelled across the room in front of customers "you're a worthless piece of sh|t", compensation for an abortion/pregnancy would run in to the tens of thousands in a civil court :lol:
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Unread postAuthor: velocity3x » Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:43 pm

MrCrowley wrote:I trust women to make the right decision more than I trust politicians to make that decision for them.

Legislating morality is an impossible task. Politicians would do well just to keep our roads free of potholes.
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:57 pm

I guess in that case women should get compensation if they decide to keep or abort the baby
damn I know you're young and all but seriously - their hmmmmm aren't golden and your pretty much saying they should get compensation for getting laid :D

it's 21st century for gods sake - we've got equality and stuff like that


I trust women to make the right decision
:D lol Mr C that made my day
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Unread postAuthor: MrCrowley » Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:47 pm

POLAND_SPUD wrote:
I guess in that case women should get compensation if they decide to keep or abort the baby
damn I know you're young and all but seriously - their hmmmmm aren't golden and your pretty much saying they should get compensation for getting laid :D

it's 21st century for gods sake - we've got equality and stuff like that


I trust women to make the right decision
:D lol Mr C that made my day
Quote-mining if I've ever seen it :lol:

My point is that I'd expect compensation if I was forced to give up alcohol (and other things :roll: ) for 9 months and then had to lose 3.4kg through a bodily orifice in one go. Not that I drink regularly or whatever, I'd just want money because I no longer have the freedom to drink when I feel like it. :D
For some, it wouldn't be easy to get an abortion either. You do make a good point but I'd rather have to pay child support than be the gender who has to bear a child.

Considering that women still don't have complete equality (in academia, professions, government, etc), I can live with the fact that women have 'power' over prenatal decisions and child support. Women are still routinely paid less for the same jobs, less preferred than males for some jobs (ask anyone who they would prefer flying a plane, a man or a woman) and under-represented in many areas. Recently, I saw a thing on Fox news (this is not a dig at Fox) discussing something related to women's rights and they had six guest speakers on, none of whom were female.

It may be that one day one of us misses out on a job because the company would prefer a woman to up the quota, or that we're stuck with child-support/abortion costs, but at the end of the day we just have to remind ourselves: it's pretty damn good to be a guy.
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Unread postAuthor: jrrdw » Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:59 pm

Boobies! I now feel en-lightened :lol:
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:05 am

Ah, how lovely to wake up on a Saturday morning with a surprisingly mild hangover and being given the opportunity to launch a gender-based tirade :D

POLAND_SPUD wrote:so I think men should have right in abortion. If women are given the right to decide whether they want to have a child or not men should be able to terminate their legal obligations to unwanted children


You Sir have my vote!

I wrote out a much longer reply but didn't want to drag the forum in to this too much.


booooooooo!

It may be that one day one of us misses out on a job because the company would prefer a woman to up the quota, or that we're stuck with child-support/abortion costs, but at the end of the day we just have to remind ourselves: it's pretty damn good to be a guy.


Where to begin...

I actually agree with a woman on this, the whole pamphlet:

The manipulated man.

Women are still routinely paid less for the same jobs, less preferred than males for some jobs (ask anyone who they would prefer flying a plane, a man or a woman) and under-represented in many areas.


Nothing is more powerful than the market. If women were equally valuable in employment doing the same job for less, they would have replaced men a long time ago.

All the manufacturing companies I've ever worked for or visited have had a grunt workforce that is almost exclusively male, while the quality control department was almost exclusively female. This is how society has always worked, man creates and woman criticises. Legislation and quotas are never going to change that, we are not equal.

Where are the women wanting equal representation collecting rubbish from the streets, or butchering livestock in a slaughterhouse?

Considering how much some people get for embarrassment suffered when they are fired from their job and their boss maybe yelled across the room in front of customers "you're a worthless piece of sh|t", compensation for an abortion/pregnancy would run in to the tens of thousands in a civil court


The solution is to remove the ridiculous compensation culture that is rotting the West from the inside. Whoever came up with the absurd notion that emotional "damage" can be assigned a value in dollars should be battered to death.
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Unread postAuthor: MrCrowley » Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:40 am

Where to begin...

I actually agree with a woman on this, the whole pamphlet:

The manipulated man.

1. Men are conscripted; women are not.
2. Men are sent to fight in wars; women are not.
3. Men retire later than women (even though, due to their lower life-expectancy,
they should have the right to have the right to retire earlier).
4. Men have almost no influence over their reproduction (for males, there is neither
a pill nor abortion - they can only get the children women want them to have).
5. Men support women; women never, or only temporarily, support men.
6. Men work all their lives; women work only temporarily or not at all.
7. Even though men work all their lives, and women work only temporarily or not at
all, on average, men are poorer than women.
8. Men only `borrow' their children; woman can keep them (as men work all their
lives and women do not, men are automatically robbed of their children in cases of
separation - with the reasoning that they have to work).

Inequality that favours women is mostly explained by a patriarchal society.

1. That's our fault, women weren't the ones in power when deciding that.
2. Same as above.
3. Probably applies to the above as well. Also, men were traditionally seen to be the ones who work while the lady stays at home with the kids. This is men telling men that men should work and women should not.
4. I've mentioned this earlier in my other replies. I think we have a genuine disadvantage but I'd prefer our position than that of the girls who have to endure the consequences. If you want a child, find the right girl or pay one.
5. This was written awhile ago so I will let it slide. Times have changed since it was written. Furthermore, this relates to: #1-3
6. This is just a rehash of previous statements addressed above.
7. This, again, can be answered by a patriarchal society. If men are supposed to be the ones supporting women, it's more likely for a man to fail and become poor as there are no women to support him. This is a result of the working man tradition.
8. I don't even know what to say. It's simply not true. If a woman cannot support her children, or the man can show he can support them far better, the man has a good chance of ending up with them. While there is a slight bias towards women in child custody cases, it's not as ridiculous as it is made out to be in this statement of the author. Men can get part-time custody without trouble. I would also say that it is another benefited afforded to women for having to deal with pregnancy/abortions.

A female conspiracy that seduces men in to making decisions that lead to inequality favouring women doesn't sound right to me. I don't see how it is favourable when there are more inequalities that favour men.

Nothing is more powerful than the market. If women were equally valuable in employment doing the same job for less, they would have replaced men a long time ago.
But the market depends so heavily on impressions and judgements. A mere rumour can cause stocks to crash so I wouldn't rely on capitalism for an example of rational thought and critical thinking. Airlines may be more likely to hire men-at a higher cost-than women solely because of the opinions of passengers. Thus, markets rely on consumers too and we all know how stupid people can be.

One also has to consider the setback from women joining the work force as a norm far later than men and when men are already in established and dominant positions. We had those positions for such a long time that it was once thought ludicrous for a women to have that same job: "how can a woman be a XXXX, only men have ever been successful as a XXXX in the past!".

On the whole, I think inequality favouring women is a result of our (men) idiocy/egos/traditions and so is inequality favouring men. There may be a small amount of manipulation by women where they exploit some advantages but I can't blame them for doing so because they are still, on the whole, more likely to be disadvantaged than us and they're only exploiting our idiocy.

That being said, I'm not a feminist. I've got other things I care more passionately about so I leave this kind of stuff up to people who give more of a crap than I. I'm also not one who thinks words like "c*nt" or "pussy" are sexist/misogynistic. My opinions of equality stem more from other beliefs of mine and is just a natural consequence of those beliefs so as to make them consistent (no point being a scientist and believing in telekinesis). I don't think everything can be equal, nor should be, due to our behavioural differences, but there is still a lot of irrational thought that goes around regarding what women can and can't, should and shouldn't, do. Hell, I even understand the thing about female pilots being less trusted. I know it's irrational to think that, but it still persists to a degree.

I also can't really be bothered arguing about equality, I'd prefer to spend my time arguing about other crap on the internet, but I just wanted to make the point that men still have it pretty f-cking good even though women get to decide things related to reproduction.
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:28 am

You Sir have my vote!
yup project mayhem is not only about executing our opponents... winning minds and souls is also on the list :D



We had those positions for such a long time that it was once thought ludicrous for a women to have that same job: "how can a woman be a XXXX, only men have ever been successful as a XXXX in the past!".

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEtw3XJoJrE[/youtube]

:D

seriously MrC your views disappoint me
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