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Table Saw Invention

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Unread postAuthor: boyntonstu » Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:29 pm

saefroch wrote:The issues of kickback and throwback were discussed earlier in another thread, and there are already very (very) cheap solutions to them, like a featherboard.

I am pretty sure that using a table saw in the rain isn't advisable in the first place. And in any case, since rain is pretty close to distilled water, I'd think the conductivity of wet wood is still a far cry from the salt solution we commonly call sweat. About the inventor dipping his finger in what is presumably a salt solution before hand: Did you notice the little nick on the frank? Showing a small nick out of the inventor's finger wouldn't be very good for business, but it's still a vast improvement over losing the entire finger.

I also say that building elevators that aren't allowable under any code isn't something to brag about.


Please explain to us how a featherboard prevents throwback.

If you don't know by now, I love to go against authority, rules, and regulations.

Would you gladly accept what OSHA or some other gubmint agency did to your invention?
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Unread postAuthor: saefroch » Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:59 pm

I do not have much of a problem going against authority, unless it means risking somebody else's safety. If the elevator was tested to ensure a significant safety factor, that's acceptable, but saying it was "not allowable under code" or something like that seems like trying to show off that you can build something that's potentially illegal and get away with it.

Are not throwback and kickback the same thing? Or am I poorly educated on the subject (which is hardly surprising).
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Unread postAuthor: boyntonstu » Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:10 pm

saefroch wrote:I do not have much of a problem going against authority, unless it means risking somebody else's safety. If the elevator was tested to ensure a significant safety factor, that's acceptable, but saying it was "not allowable under code" or something like that seems like trying to show off that you can build something that's potentially illegal and get away with it.

Are not throwback and kickback the same thing? Or am I poorly educated on the subject (which is hardly surprising).


I agree that it is never prudent to endanger others.

I would never let a person use or ride anything that I didn't use myself and thoroughly test.

Now back to saws:

Read this: http://www.thewoodshop.20m.com/howto_splitter.htm

He considers kickback and throwback the same.

Notice that a featherboard is never mentioned.

I have a different definition of throwback:

Anything that the rotating blade can launch at you; including, chips, blade teeth, or anything else that accidentally falls onto the balde.

I will post a video that I made today of me ripping a 4 foot piece of plywood using my thingy.

My saw + my method of operating it makes cutting wood virtually 100% safe.
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Unread postAuthor: saefroch » Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:16 pm

Here's how I understand featherboards: In normal operation, the movement of the wood causes a small amount of shear and tensile stress from friction. In the reverse direction, the feather board is under compression and shear, and thus cannot deform to allow the piece to pass.

They're also sold as being able to guard against kickback, so I'd trust the advertiser to some degree.

My tool + my method of doing it can make ANYTHING safe.
Your tool + an idiot is completely unsafe

SawStop + an idiot is almost 100% safe.
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Unread postAuthor: MrCrowley » Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:39 pm

boyntonstu wrote:According to our esteemed rule maker, we must never answer 2 posts with 2 posts.

We must answer 2 posts with a combined single post, or be asked to LEAVE,LEAVE, LEAVE.

Imagine answering 2 emails from 2 different people with a single email.

I guess if you are terribly anal, it makes some sense, but I can't understand the logic of the rule.

Does anyone else?

1: I don't make the rules. The double posting rule was here before I was.
2. What's wrong with answering two posts with a single post? Do you know how to quote a post? Yes? So what's the issue? Here's a step-by-step guide on answering two posts with one.
    Right click 'Quote' on the first post and select 'open in new tab'
    Click 'Quote' on the second post so you're taken to the 'Post a reply' page
    Type out your comment to the second post below the quoted post
    Copy and paste in the first post to your reply at the end of your reply to the second post
    Type your reply to the first post and then click 'Submit'

It takes more or less the same amount as time as making two posts and it's not against the rules.

Imagine answering 2 emails from 2 different people with a single email

I'm sure you're even aware of how dumb this analogy is. Apples and oranges. This a FORUM (do you know what that is, Stu?).

I guess if you are terribly anal, it makes some sense, but I can't understand the logic of the rule.

It annoys the sh|t out of you, I'm having fun with this because you HAVE to abide by the rules. Does that make you mad? You have to listen to what I say?

I know other forums I frequent have the same rule and the rule was here before me so I don't really care why we have it. I prefer it to be honest, keeps things neat and tidy and it's so simple even a dumbass can follow it...
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Unread postAuthor: boyntonstu » Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:26 pm

You sound like an ideal role model.

I now completely understand your choice of an avatar.

--------------------------------------

Your tool + an idiot is completely unsafe

I am interested in what circumstances an ordinary, non-suicidal idiot could injure themselves using my tool.

Please elaborate.
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Last edited by boyntonstu on Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postAuthor: saefroch » Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:28 pm

In honor of Rag,
boyntonstu wrote:Blah Blah Blah insult Blah Blah Blah insult Blah Blah Blah
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Unread postAuthor: MrCrowley » Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:38 pm

boyntonstu wrote:You sound like an ideal role model.

I now completely understand your choice of an avatar.

Who are you referring to? It helps if you quote.
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Unread postAuthor: saefroch » Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:10 pm

boyntonstu wrote:I am interested in what circumstances an ordinary, non-suicidal idiot could injure themselves using my tool.

Please elaborate.
By touching the blade.
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Unread postAuthor: Killjoy » Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:37 pm

As someone with experience with a SawStop, I thought I would throw my two cents in.

SawStop finds the majority of its buyers in the companies and places where many individuals use the table saw. It was built with the individual user in mind, but it is intended to be sold to places that have a large multiple user basis.

Even the most experience users can have an accident on the table saw, all it takes is one small distraction or a quick moment of not paying attention which can happen to anyone any time. My father worked in a carpentry company a number of years ago, and he witnessed a man with twenty plus years experience in woodworking lose the tip of his finger on a table saw because he was distracted by someone asking him a yes or no question. Then it wasn't a huge deal, today it would be a very expensive lawsuit or worker's comp package.

Stanford has several student prototyping shops on campus, and they all have SawStop for the express purpose to protect experienced and inexperienced students from accidents with the table saws that are bound to happen when you have fifty or so different users a day on the table saw. The shops save the used cartridges to remind students to be careful, and there are a lot of kids who can count their blessings to have their fingers still.

I agree with you Stu that this table saw is overkill for an individual and there small workshop. But for a a place with a large user base such as large shop or company where there are undeniably distractions, SawStop has a perfect niche.

As a side note, it can also cut wet wood, I've seen it done several times. I've been told letting any questionably wet wood sit for a day is all that is needed to ensure no misfires of the SawStop. But the majority of places that would use SawStop would use dry wood in a dry environment (ie shop setting, house construction outside under a tent or inside the partially finished house.)
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Unread postAuthor: LeMaudit » Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:47 pm

Thanks for the 2 cents thrown, you answer a lot of my questions about the thingy.
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Unread postAuthor: boyntonstu » Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:55 pm

saefroch wrote:
boyntonstu wrote:I am interested in what circumstances an ordinary, non-suicidal idiot could injure themselves using my tool.

Please elaborate.
By touching the blade.


Come on, that is reaching. Pun intended!

Can you think of any way to cut yourself using my saw when your hands are 12" away from the blade the entire time.

BTW It was Crowley's avatar I was referring to.


A contractor cannot wait until wood dries to cut it.

A delay would be a major impediment in his/her business.

The "thingy" is my invention, not SawStop.
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Unread postAuthor: metalmeltr » Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:32 pm

Sawstop can not cut wet wood. The construction class in my school has one that was set off by wet pressure treated wood. It will also be set off if a foreign peice of metal (tape measure) come into close proximity of the blade.
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Unread postAuthor: Killjoy » Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:52 pm

To clarify, "questionably wet wood" that should be left to dry was described to me as "dripping" wet, and no respectable contractor I know would use wood that was exceptionally wet for fear of it drying resulting in cracks or shifting things out of being square or aligned. I know this from my experience contracting and building with both wet and dry wood, and any wet wood a contractor would see fit to use I have seen cut on SawStop. For the chance there was any question, SawStop does have a disconnect switch to the mechanism for individual cuts.

Contrary to metalmeltr's claim that SawStop cannot cut wet wood, the chemicals used in pressure treating wood often contain copper and other conductive materials which obviously makes tripping the mechanism very likely when combined with the wood being wet. This is why it is generally suggested to let pressure treated wood dry completely or disengage the SawStop mechanism for the individual cut.

Stu,
I've seen you invention, and if you want my honest opinion I think it is a damn good idea that is a "partial"* solution to making a table saw safer, and is much more ideal for the DIYer, small contractor, home wood worker, or any place that cuts conductive materials on a table saw than StopSaw. But like your invention Stu, StopSaw is a different, "partial" solution to the same table saw dangers. I say "partial" solution for both because I personally believe there is no way (while maintaining human presence in operation and feeding) to make a table saw completely safe based upon what I've seen personally and been told.

In no way am I saying StopSaw is better than your invention, but I will say it is still a viable, good idea with it's own place. The same applies for your table saw which I am sure in many markets could provide strong competition.
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Unread postAuthor: MrCrowley » Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:05 pm

BTW It was Crowley's avatar I was referring to.

Do you even know anything about my avatar?

What does it have to do with...
You sound like an ideal role model.
I now completely understand your choice of an avatar.
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