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Quadrotor Discussion

All non-spudgun related discussion goes here such as projects, theories, serious questions, etc. All "off-topic" posts (aka useless posting, determined by moderators) will be removed.
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Unread postAuthor: al-xg » Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:46 pm

A resistance is already forming !

Something I tried this weekend...
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXHx4D3e0LU[/youtube]
:lol:

The video is terrible and not really truthful, but I did manage to get it to hover and shoot, even though the loaded marker weighs 1.2kg and I only had standard size props.

I'll have to try again with a much lighter setup, Terminator style paintball drone chase ? :D
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Last edited by al-xg on Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postAuthor: LeMaudit » Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:50 pm

You didn't!!! 1.2kg!? You could lift that much!? Please give more details :D
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Unread postAuthor: al-xg » Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:59 pm

Yes, but basically at full throttle just to hover, and it seems that after just a couple of minutes the voltage drop meant I was struggling to get it even 1m off the ground. So not really viable as is, but the marker is much heavier than it needs to be, I'm sure I'll be able to sort out a lighter solution at some point.

Also, much bigger props are generally used for heavy lifting.

It was surprisingly stable, but just drops very fast if anything goes wrong.

I really want to try this again once I get a proper Tx (I was using a cheap non-computerised one, so no rates or expo), and FPV !
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Unread postAuthor: LeMaudit » Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:10 pm

the flight duration is what I dislike when I start dreaming about those copters right now... (and also about ABS printed hollow shells, light and sexy to cover them ;-) )

You can't really make of good use something that fly with a marker (oh wait! I can say gun and cannon here :D ) for a few minutes... time to aquire your target and you're down already.

I even dreamed a bit about helium assisted flights... until I figure that I would need a huge balloon to get some useful lift... and that's a way too tempting target for paintballers! :lol:
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Unread postAuthor: al-xg » Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:34 pm

I have various hybrid designs in mind to try out, I'm thinking either tilt rotor (a few designs of this type are already about) or even tilting wing. Not necessarily paintball related though.


I think the flight time could be increased considerably with a few design tweaks for efficiency, a light weight CO2 canon (that pistol is a massive chunk of aluminium...), lighter frame, and find the sweet spot as regards to on board battery capacity.


You could also just have the copter perch somewhere and wait for its pray :D
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Unread postAuthor: LeMaudit » Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:44 pm

What would be your best educated guess about a maximum flight time, supposing we have a light gun?

Say, with a 900gr loaded handgun (it's the weight of my TiPX), plus a ideal ratio between battery, motor power and total weight?

And for size, any chance this could be put in a backpack? :D Your copter seem to be something like 1 meter diameter? Correct?
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:16 pm

Damn SF you scary :D

the flight duration is what I dislike when I start dreaming about those copters right now
traditional fixed wing UAVs are pretty cool too

plus they can make a nice uhmm payload delivery vehicle if you know what I mean :wink:


lol probably shouldn't make any comments like these considering that Euro 2012 starts tommorow ;-)
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Unread postAuthor: al-xg » Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:38 pm

Well, I'm not yet very educated on the matter, :) but there are tri's out there of similar design that will fly 20-30min with FPV gear and a couple of batteries.

900g is still quite a lot for a tri that size, I can't really see more than 10min with an efficient tricopter (undermounted contra-rotating props, lightweight frame and large props...). I'll get a better idea after further experimenting.

However you could have quick swappable batteries, you'd be limited by ammo anyway...

Or just mount a few paintball grenade shells and go for a scatter effect !

traditional fixed wing UAVs are pretty cool too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DzqO1xB ... re=related
Or something using a free wing tilt design maybe...


The arms I had on this weekend are 60cm long, prop shaft to CG, but that's mainly for stability reasons when using a basic Tx and also as a consequence the arms tend to get shorter after a few crashes.
I've flown it with 30cm arms also, and they can also be made foldable.
So, yeah, fitting it in a back pack should be easy.

Although probably not feasible for small copters, a hybrid power system (IC generator powering brushless motors) could be interesting. It seems even low efficiencies would provide more energy density than current battery technology.
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:24 pm

Or something using a free wing tilt design maybe
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gf5ZhNfdDZc[/youtube]
naaah who needs tilting wings ?
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Unread postAuthor: al-xg » Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:59 pm

Max payload ? :D

I could make one of those quite easily, I probably will just for fun one day.

Similar idea here with a quadcopter:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWTi2Dgh0Fw[/youtube]
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:49 pm

this method to achieve vtol isn't new at all - there were even real planes (even jets) based on this idea... the only problem was limited vision and stability issues both of which are pretty much non existant with UAVs
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:06 am

al-xg wrote:The video is terrible and not really truthful, but I did manage to get it to hover and shoot, even though the loaded marker weighs 1.2kg and I only had standard size props.


Sexeh! LeMaudit and I have been discussing something similar recently.

Please give more details


I knew this would get your attention hehehe

I even dreamed a bit about helium assisted flights... until I figure that I would need a huge balloon to get some useful lift... and that's a way too tempting target for paintballers!


hehe a couple ofthese tethered together :D or this! lol.

I think the flight time could be increased considerably with a few design tweaks for efficiency, a light weight CO2 canon (that pistol is a massive chunk of aluminium...), lighter frame, and find the sweet spot as regards to on board battery capacity.


Definitely, one design I proposed was to have the outriggers made from PET bottles that would double as air chambers (with say 4 x 3 litre soda bottles that's a lot of air...), add a small solenoid valve, BB chamber and barrel et voila, death from above :D

You could also just have the copter perch somewhere and wait for its pray


What is it, a holycopter :D

Making a sentry gun is challenging enough, making one that can fly is another matter entirely...

a hybrid power system (IC generator powering brushless motors) could be interesting.


Interesting indeed. Apparently already used on this transatlantic UAV as an APU:

Most of the electrical energy for long duration flights is produced by a three-phase alternator driven by the engine. A small battery supplies energy for the descent and landing after the engine is stopped.


Speaking of military style quads, this is really sexy: http://www.defensereview.com/bcbaai-sq- ... -backpack/
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Unread postAuthor: Spud Destruction » Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:23 am

So Jack are you going to make something for me to shoot at for my show :wink:

Thats an awesome machine..
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:52 am

Spud Destruction wrote:So Jack are you going to make something for me to shoot at for my show :wink:


If you can afford it, sure ;)

POLAND_SPUD wrote:this method to achieve vtol isn't new at all - there were even real planes (even jets) based on this idea...


Those damn Nazis again:

Image

Image
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Unread postAuthor: al-xg » Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:41 am

What is it, a holycopter

Damn! :lol:
Add another spelling mistake combo could describe a good way for the copter to hide in trees camouflaged as a green bush with red berries.

Making a sentry gun is challenging enough


In the paintball scenario, a human controlled would be good enough and probably more fun :)
Apparently there is a virtual version of this for the ARDrone which involves wearing a colourful hat for the AR part.

is produced by a three-phase alternator

A brushless motor run in reverse does this, but for the hobby RC scale and off the shelf parts a DC generator output would seem easier.


this method to achieve vtol isn't new at all

Years ago I tried making a model Convair XFY-1 Pogo, but without brushless motors or Li-Po it didn't go very well. I was probably also a bit too young at the time to pull it off.


hehe a couple of these tethered together or this! lol.

A good kite ? :D
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