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requiring lathe+mill

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requiring lathe+mill

Unread postAuthor: wyz2285 » Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:34 pm

Hey everyone.
I have said this somewhere, I'm looking for a worthwhile lathe plus milling machine.
After looking at some, the price varying from couple hundred to couple thousand, and I found out I know nothing about the specifications and witch are important.
So I'd love to hear someone who knows about machinery and what's best I can get for 1000 euro
Thanks
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CpTn_lAw wrote::D "yay, me wanna make big multishot pnoob with 1000 psi foot pump compressor using diamond as main material. Do you think wet bread make good sealant? " :D
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Unread postAuthor: Zeus » Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:59 pm

For starters, don't get a combination machine, they're too limiting. You'll never find a good new lathe and mill under 1000 euros, I'm going for this mill and this lathe. The resellers are going to cut me a deal on tooling if I buy it all in one shot, so I'm budgeting $6000AUD.

Whatever you do, don't get one of these mills, or their like. The bed isn't a standard size, so you'll pay through the nose for a good vice. And these lathes, and all the Siegs are useless for a beginner, far too much backlash, so no accuracy, not enough power, so you'll start chipping carbide inserts, and they just aren't a good deal.

Also, don't get a mill with a round column, the head will deflect when you're cutting, and it'll kill accuracy. Dovetails are the best way to go. And I'd keep away from the used market until you know what you're looking for. There's some good stuff, and some really dodgy stuff out there.

I'll copy JSR's future post, and recommend Sherline if you don't need anything big, because of how modular they are, and if you want to go bigger, look for the lathe and mill I'm after, it's as small as you'd want in a full sized machine. Remember that Sherlines keep their value well, so you can sell them on for little loss.
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Unread postAuthor: wyz2285 » Fri Mar 08, 2013 6:19 pm

I was unsure about separated lathe and mill or combo, now this is clear.
Well the unimat lathe plus independent mill cust a little over 1000 euro, are you saying they are no good?
I don't need anything big, biggest work I can think of would be a pcp rifle, apart from the chamber I don't think there are parts larger than 20 cm. I looked sherline, too expensive, almost 1000 for a smallish lathe that looks rudimentary.
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CpTn_lAw wrote::D "yay, me wanna make big multishot pnoob with 1000 psi foot pump compressor using diamond as main material. Do you think wet bread make good sealant? " :D
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Unread postAuthor: Zeus » Fri Mar 08, 2013 6:31 pm

Can you give me a link to the Unimats? There's nothing wrong with the older ones, but like I say, if you don't know lathes well, or don't know someone who does, then I'd go for new gear.

Honestly, I wouldn't expect to spend any less that 3-4000 euros (with the exchange rate as it is) on a quality lathe and mill. If you're only doing PCP air rifles, then you wouldn't need a mill at all, and a Sherline lathe is the right size for valves and such.

And while the Sherlines look simple, they're one of the most capable mini machines on the market, far more so than the cheap Chinese lathes. I was reading about one fella fixing them up to be usable, and it wasn't something for the beginner. Those lathes are called lathe kits for a reason, he needed a mill and a few weeks of work to get it usable.

Machining isn't something you can dive headlong into, I've been saving and learning since 2010, and I've got no intentions of getting something sub par. Just be patient with it, put that money aside and keep adding to it, get something good that you won't regret, like those shitty little machines.
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Unread postAuthor: wyz2285 » Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:56 am

Can you give me a link to the Unimats? There's nothing wrong with the older ones, but like I say, if you don't know lathes well, or don't know someone who does, then I'd go for new gear.

here, the one I found it's new, for about 450 euro.
Here is the respective mill that can be mount on the lathe, 300 euro without the base or 600 with it.
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CpTn_lAw wrote::D "yay, me wanna make big multishot pnoob with 1000 psi foot pump compressor using diamond as main material. Do you think wet bread make good sealant? " :D
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Unread postAuthor: flashskate13 » Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:09 am

I have this milling machine

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-si ... rod827992/

Its a little on the small side but capable and accurate, depending on what you are wanting to make.
As for a lathe I got given a unimat 1 classic but I very rarely use it its able to turn aluminium but accuracy is not great.

With both these tools I am able to make most parts for my DSR 1 build.
Hope you find what you are looking for.
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Unread postAuthor: wyz2285 » Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:20 am

It's a sieg, but you say it's pretty capable and accurate, hum... They are sure cheap. Can you define capable and accurate?
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CpTn_lAw wrote::D "yay, me wanna make big multishot pnoob with 1000 psi foot pump compressor using diamond as main material. Do you think wet bread make good sealant? " :D
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Unread postAuthor: Zeus » Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:30 am

The lathe looks alright, but it's just as simple as the Sherline, a bit cheaper for you though. I really really don't suggest you buy that mill though, the Sieg X0 is a far better choice, even though it's tiny. Just because of the dovetail column, it's far more accurate. I can't say much for Sieg lathes, the mills are alright, but not the best for the money down here.

The X2 that I linked you to would be a better choice, because I know you'll feel limited by the X0 in time. They're available in the UK, so you should be able to find them. They'll be accurate enough for your purposes, but you won't be making fast cuts, and chatter might be a problem with the lack of torque.

Put it this way, I'm getting my gear for making mil spec receivers for airsoft guns, from Al and steel, and I wouldn't consider them, because I can't afford to make tiny cuts when I'm getting paid per gun. If you're happy to make small cuts, then they'll be fine, but you won't be taking 1/8" off every pass on that Emco lathe.
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Unread postAuthor: wyz2285 » Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:37 am

Well I don't get paid, still pure hobby, even through there are people offering for some of my builds.
Found a sieg distributor at Spain, probably they sell to Portugal, I'm thinking about the c3 lathe and x2 mill.
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CpTn_lAw wrote::D "yay, me wanna make big multishot pnoob with 1000 psi foot pump compressor using diamond as main material. Do you think wet bread make good sealant? " :D
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Unread postAuthor: flashskate13 » Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:46 am

Yeah its capable but a slow process as you need to lock down the axis as the slightest vibration can cause it to have undesired movements, the problem with all micro or mini milling machines is the weight and vibration can occur easily.

Don't know if you have spoken to Ryan aka candy man who built the DSR 1 he has the model slightly different to mine

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-si ... rod568039/

And he's website,

http://www.ukmonsters.co.uk/dsr1/dsr1.htm

Zeus is right more you can spend will always be better, and the slightest imperfection in your set up will ruin your part.
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Unread postAuthor: flashskate13 » Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:49 am

Curiosity what's is it your making?
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Unread postAuthor: wyz2285 » Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:51 am

If he built that with that mill,o then the sieg it's ok for me. I'll contact the Spain distributor soon to see the price and port.
Curiosity what's is it your making?

Me? I had designed a pcp airgun and a vintorez lookalike airsoft gun, and now I'm needing some adequate tools.[/code]
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CpTn_lAw wrote::D "yay, me wanna make big multishot pnoob with 1000 psi foot pump compressor using diamond as main material. Do you think wet bread make good sealant? " :D
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Unread postAuthor: Zeus » Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:57 am

Don't take this the wrong way, but honestly, make sure there's a return policy available, and you can check out the mill beforehand. When I was thinking about the X2, the bed travel of 225x100mm seemed alright. When I saw it in person, it's just too small. The mill I'm getting now has a travel of 470x200, which is still tiny, but far more usable.

The X3 has enough grunt to be usable, but make sure you check out the mini lathe and mill forums on all the mods you'll need to do to get decent accuracy. Lapping the bed and replacing the gibs is a good start, but they'll take more. Plenty of info out there.
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Unread postAuthor: wyz2285 » Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:03 am

The x3 looks huge, I have a idea of 225x100, I have a 125x100 bed on my drill press so I can use it as a mill.
I'll take a deep research about them.
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CpTn_lAw wrote::D "yay, me wanna make big multishot pnoob with 1000 psi foot pump compressor using diamond as main material. Do you think wet bread make good sealant? " :D
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Unread postAuthor: flashskate13 » Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:14 am

Also siegs come with drill chucks standard candy man uses the drill chuck to mill but I changed mine to a mt1 collet chuck and er20 collets supposedly the better option for milling.

Cool be nice to see your work in progress.
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