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The Official: "Things that piss you off" Thread!!

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Unread postAuthor: Pete Zaria » Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:42 pm

@joannaardway
In evolution terms, a few thousand years isn't a lot. Before that omnivorous time, our evolutionary ancestors were herbivorous foragers. Our body systems are still well honed towards that.
So much so, that actually, it would be difficult for a human to survive healthly solely on meat (like say, a tiger or other big cat does)
Consider, although we receive advice of "5 fruit and veg portions a day", there is nothing that suggests we should eat "2 portions of meat a day".


What's your source on this? Humans have been omnivorous for as long as we have written records (back to the Egyptian/Sumerian times, since roughly 6000BC), and to the extent of my knowledge, there's little evidence to suggest we ever did it any other way. Can you show me some articles to the contrary?

Humans don't exist amazingly well on either an all-meat or all-vegetative-matter diet. It's true that you can eat lots of nuts and other things with protein and fiber to help replace meat, balancing out the diet. On the other side of that, lots of vitamins and minerals and things could probably replace fruit/veggies, to balance out the diet.

As to the "daily servings/values" thing... blah, that system has been outdated and considered junk by most nutritionists for quite a few years.

Your arguments are valid and reasonable. If only more people discussed their views as you did, rather than forcing their opinions onto you and closing their minds to new ideas (cough George Bush cough).

@A-98
Thanks for the cookie.... (oatmeal raisin next time, man!)

@Insomniac
See?! It is possible to debate something without getting pissed off. I agree with your comments about opinions, etc...

Peace,
Pete Zaria.
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Unread postAuthor: pyromanic13 » Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:00 pm

look...if animals wear made of wood I wouldn't eat them.
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Unread postAuthor: judgment_arms » Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:24 am

So what about the poor soy plants, grown from seed only to be turned in to tofu! Oh the humanity!
You know what, after reading all this about vegetarianism, and meat eating, it’s left me with a dream, a wish for the future, for better times…
Tomorrow I want fried chicken, corn, some spinach, and a bowl of beef stew for dinner…now I’m hungry…
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Unread postAuthor: MrCrowley » Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:50 am

FIve servings of fruit and veges a day...is a load of crap.
I eat hardly any fruit but i like me veges and eat my fair share. Im as healtyh as anyone else you eats loads of fruit. And there is a thing to say how much red meat you should eat Joanna I just forgot what it is. If you don't like the red/blood colour of the meet why not it white meat? Chicken/Fish.
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Unread postAuthor: Recruit » Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:33 am

I would trade pork and chicken for beef any day. Beef is like 4times the value of chicken or pork here. :shock: :shock:
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Unread postAuthor: joannaardway » Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:12 am

Pete Zaria wrote:@joannaardway:

What's your source on this? Humans have been omnivorous for as long as we have written records (back to the Egyptian/Sumerian times, since roughly 6000BC), and to the extent of my knowledge, there's little evidence to suggest we ever did it any other way. Can you show me some articles to the contrary?

Humans don't exist amazingly well on either an all-meat or all-vegetative-matter diet. It's true that you can eat lots of nuts and other things with protein and fiber to help replace meat, balancing out the diet. On the other side of that, lots of vitamins and minerals and things could probably replace fruit/veggies, to balance out the diet.

As to the "daily servings/values" thing... blah, that system has been outdated and considered junk by most nutritionists for quite a few years.

Your arguments are valid and reasonable. If only more people discussed their views as you did, rather than forcing their opinions onto you and closing their minds to new ideas (cough George Bush cough).


I might have slightly the wrong date in terms of humans becoming omnivores - my memory for history isn't great. I thought it was about 12,000 years back when animal domestication happened, and about 20,000 before that... something to do with animals, but I forget.

As I said, in evolution terms, a few thousand years is nothing - in truth, even a few hundred thousand years isn't a lot, when for the last few million your ancestors have been living solely on vegetable matter.

Nonetheless, there is plenty of evidence that humans can benefit from a vegetarian diet.

A recent UK TV programme did research into a "evolution" diet - where the volunteers ate solely fruit, vegetables and nuts (about 5kg a day) for a little under two weeks - because this is what our evolutionary ancestors ate. The results were astounding - overall the cholesterol level of the group fell 23%, with sharp decreases in sodium levels and blood pressure. This is over only 12 days - many diets would expect that reduction over several months - not days.

Studies have also shown that vegetarians have higher stamina. These facts are thought to arise because our bodies are still finely honed to accept a vegetarian diet.

Humans can survive exceptionally well on a vegetarian diet. I know people say that vegetarians look thin, unhealthy and pale - however, that view is skewed against the non-vegetarian populace.

It's a question of what do you define as "normal"?

The thing about servings/guidlines - it might be outdated, but it's still a good thing to adhere to. They tend to be good advice - even if it's not the best advice.

MrCrowley wrote:Five servings of fruit and veges a day...is a load of crap.
I eat hardly any fruit but i like me veges and eat my fair share. Im as healtyh as anyone else you eats loads of fruit. And there is a thing to say how much red meat you should eat Joanna I just forgot what it is. If you don't like the red/blood colour of the meet why not it white meat? Chicken/Fish.

That limit on red meat is (I believe) a maximum, not a minimum like the recommended quantity of fruit and veg.

I didn't say I didn't like the colour of the meat - that is nowhere in amongst my reasons - neither is "I don't like the taste". I eat soya-based meat subsitutes on occasions - I quite like them. But regardless of whether I like the taste, I'm not going to eat meat.
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Unread postAuthor: Killjoy » Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:10 pm

Damn all this talk about meat has made me hungary, chicken fried steak and gravy fries sounds good...
That UK evolution diet thing is really interesting, i would never had guess switching to a all fruit vegi and nut diet would have such an effect, might suggest that to someone i know cause apperently the doctor said hes almost a solid because of all the cholesterol.
And i think you guys are the first vegitarians i have ever met who haven't shoved their beliefs down my or any one elses throat, very nice.
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Unread postAuthor: MrCrowley » Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:11 pm

That limit on red meat is (I believe) a maximum, not a minimum like the recommended quantity of fruit and veg.


There used to be an ad on TV here for a super market ad and it was given approval by the Heart Foundation, It involved some of New Zealands top athletes and red meat.....Thne it went on to say how much red meat you should be eating. Not a mximum but a minimum.
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Unread postAuthor: A-98 » Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:56 pm

i had a 4-meat burger yesterday, it had a burger, steak, salami, and chicken on it . it was soo yummy!
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Unread postAuthor: Killjoy » Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:11 am

That sounds good a-98, i just had a double meat beef burger with green chopped chile and red chile, a chile dog, and a bbq beef burger. it was good, especially after a basketball game. You know thats something that pisses me off, refs who are biased against certain players and don't make good calls.
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Unread postAuthor: Insomniac » Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:24 am

You can be perfectly healthy as a vegitarian, but you need to be careful you get enough of certain chemicals. My dad (who jogs alot, he's done a few marathons) went vegitarian for a while because of the fat in meat, but when he went to give blood they told him his iron was a bit low. So he started to eat meat again and now he has enough iron to give blood.
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Unread postAuthor: pyromanic13 » Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:51 am

fork meat... I could live off of top ramen and energy drinks. until my heart gives out.
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Unread postAuthor: joannaardway » Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:19 am

@ Insomniac: All though I've been told I look thin, doctors tell me that my height, weight, and fat percentage match up perfectly with the ideal. To the best of my knowledge, my diet contains all of the required chemicals in about the right amounts.

@MrCrowley: I hadn't heard a minimum limit before.

I've heard recommended maximums, mostly because my remaining Grandfather has had three heart attacks and an aortal (the aorta<sp> is the main artery from the heart) rupture due to eating too much of the stuff. He's seriously lucky to be alive.

I've never heard of/ had such dangerous problems from eating too little of the stuff.

EDIT:

@ Killjoy: This is a link to the BBC webpage about the diet. There's also a link on that page to a sample of what they ate over a couple of days.
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Unread postAuthor: Insomniac » Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:29 am

@ joannaardway
I didn't say that being a vegitarian means that you would miss out on different nurients, what I mean is that some people may not be aware of what they need to eat to make up for the stuff they would usually get from meat. Eg we all know to drink lots of milk for calcium, and red meat for iron, but not many would know of a good vegitarian food to get their iron from (other than iron tablets).
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Unread postAuthor: A-98 » Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:00 am

pyromanic13 wrote:fork meat... I could live off of top ramen and energy drinks. until my heart gives out.


that totaly just got sigged
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