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black powder rocket anyone??

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Unread postAuthor: SpudBlaster15 » Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:06 pm

Iron oxide does not catalyze the combustion of KNO3/Sucrose.

Forming a solid black powder core is not difficult. Simply add a small percentage (<5%) of Dextrin (a binding agent made by heating corn starch in an oven at 350*F until it turns golden brown), wet the mixture, then use a ram rod to pack the powder into the tube. Such a propellant will drastically outperform a KNO3/Sucrose mixture, and is inherently less dangerous to manufacture.
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Unread postAuthor: BC Pneumatics » Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:44 am

I don't think he was talking about using the Fe2O3 (presumably) as a catalyst, just as a better high temperature oxidizer.

Having actually made both, I do prefer the black powder. (Which is more dangerous to work with, though neither fuel is unstable)

I have cast kilos upon kilos of kno3/sucrose mix, and have never had any significant amount (Nothing more than a few grams dripping onto the burner), ignite during the process.

I have had a couple hand packed black powder rocket CATOs, but I have a perfect record since I started using a proper press. *Knock on wood*

Shotting anything on fire outta' a spudgun is a felony. Don't do it, even if the nice officers from Vegas suggest it.
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Unread postAuthor: SpudBlaster15 » Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:46 am

The combustion temperature of KNO3/Sucrose does not reach a high enough point to decompose Fe2O3, preventing any oxidizing effect. Fe2O3 is an effective oxidizer only when the temperature of combustion falls within the range of that produced by metallic fuels (thermite anyone?).

I had a horrible experience involving casting KNO3/Sucrose when I was first starting out, and since then, I have rarely manufactured it. I find that pressing a powder that is insensitive to shock, friction, and static electricity is much safer than melting and casting one that is sensitive to heat and flame.

I almost never experience CATOs, because most of my rockets are nozzleless. Such a design requires a very fast propellant, and KNO3/Sucrose is nowhere near good enough. Ball milled black powder made with black alder charcoal is the only thing that works well for me.
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Unread postAuthor: spudthug » Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:52 am

quit hijacking this take it to pms
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Unread postAuthor: SpudBlaster15 » Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:02 pm

So, you want us to discuss your miniature pipe bomb instead?

This thread is based on rockets, and that is what we are discussing. Perhaps you should take some of the "hijacking" posts into consideration, to allow yourself to advance from a pyrotechnics n00b to someone who actually has some knowledge, and can build proper devices.
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Unread postAuthor: spudthug » Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:33 pm

u know what f*ck u sb15 all u do is flame poeple ur an effing idiot

edit: someone lock this dam topic before sb15 flames someone again
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Unread postAuthor: SpudBlaster15 » Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:40 pm

How was I flaming you? I simply stated that your "rocket" more resembles a pipe bomb, and that you are both inexperienced and lacking knowledge of pyrotechnics. Your last post contributed several times more flaming than I have done in this entire thread.

I suggest that you learn some proper spelling and grammar skills before posting on these forums again. Everyone on this forum is annoyed by your inability to write legible posts.
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Unread postAuthor: spudthug » Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:45 pm

i didn't spell anything wrong idiot...so what if i use u and ur....everyone knows what it means......god i bet ur like 8 years old and u ask ur dad for comebacks then u dont know how to spell it so he comes and flames people for u.....
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Unread postAuthor: SpudBlaster15 » Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:07 pm

I count a total of 10 spelling/grammatical errors in the post in question. Using shortened phrases is an unacceptable means of communicating on a forum, this isn't a damn chat room.

Look at you go. Flaming me with some of the most idiotic means I have seen. Your insults have absolutely no basis, no relevance, etc, and are thus idiotic. You and you immaturity are not worth my time. Go start an argument with someone who is of your own intelligence level, and actually gives a crap about what you have to say. I'm done.
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Unread postAuthor: spudthug » Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:05 pm

you spelled your wrong.....so umm there....plus see that red button that looks like an exclamation point?? i pressed it.....




You and you immaturity are
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Unread postAuthor: cannon freak » Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:25 pm

Spudthug he's not flaming, just stating the truth. As for hijacking the fourms, this is a discussion of rockets as I recall is it not?

hmm, I was always under the impression that black powder was tuff to pack into a good mould, guess I was wrong.

I still prefer KnO3/ sucrose myself, mainly because its so cheap to make.

Has anyone had any luck with ammonium nitrate? The different recipes I tried all resulted in pretty crappy propellant, from what Ive learned you apparently need to phase stabilize it, Im still unsure of what that means.


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Unread postAuthor: PCGUY » Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:32 pm

Please refer to the last people who got into a pissing contest, and reconsider your thoughts about this argument.
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Unread postAuthor: BC Pneumatics » Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:19 pm

SpudBlaster15, a quote come to mind.
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.


'Spudthug' appears to be a complete moron, so just leave him be.

And indeed, the KNO3/Sucrose mix seems to fall about 200*C short of the decomposition temp of Fe2O3.

I have yet to have a KNO3/Sucrose CATO, although I have blown out a couple nozzles. (When experimenting with new types)
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Unread postAuthor: paaiyan » Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:31 pm

So I've been interested in this kinf of thing for a while. Well, anything that goes boom or spews flame really... Moving on, where do you got your supplies. I know the ingredients for both black powder and KNO3/sucrose but the only thing I know how to get is the sucrose. I know KNO3 can be obtained from farm supply stores but I think a 19-year-old buying a 20 lb bag of KNO3 for no apparent reason would raise questions.
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Unread postAuthor: BC Pneumatics » Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:35 pm

Actually, a lot of 'farm stores' don;t sell KNO3 anymore, for fear of terrorism. (Especially in Oklahoma)
KNO3 is sold at BCARMS.com :lol:
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