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black powder rocket anyone??

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Unread postAuthor: cannon freak » Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:36 pm

I don't know about the US but up here in Canada I get my KnO3 from the local co-op farm supply department. Doesn't raise any questions, I will usually drag my dad with me so he can make the purchase as well. If you want you can buy it off of eBay or some online hydroponic stores, be aware though that shipping usually cost a hell of a lot.

Edit:
I forgot about the whole terrorism thing, ya if you live in the US your probably best off with buying it online.


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Last edited by cannon freak on Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Unread postAuthor: paaiyan » Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:37 pm

So now, where would I obtain sulfur and saltpeter?
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Unread postAuthor: BC Pneumatics » Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:39 pm

Saltpeter=KNO3, and sulfur is about to be added to BCARMS.com as well.
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Unread postAuthor: paaiyan » Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:45 pm

That's cool. I suppose I could always borrow some from my chem prof... He'd probably help me, lol.
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Unread postAuthor: spudthug » Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:03 pm

skylighter.com....or united nuclear thats where i get all my supplies..i was actually going to order some stuff from bcarms...but i got flamed by him....

'Spudthug' appears to be a complete moron
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Unread postAuthor: Blitz » Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:15 pm

spudthug wrote:skylighter.com....or united nuclear thats where i get all my supplies..i was actually going to order some stuff from bcarms...but i got flamed by him....

'Spudthug' appears to be a complete moron


Yeeeah, I'm sure he's in complete tears.
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Unread postAuthor: BC Pneumatics » Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:41 pm

United nuclear is INCREDIBLY expensive.
The skylighter age verification thing is a large PITA as well.

So sad to loose your business spudthug, but you cannot argue with fact. You honestly are coming off as an ass. Not to mention, I don't know how much I trust you with a lot of the things I sell after seeing your 'rocket'. It would be even worse if I believed that you were actually going to place an order to begin with.
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Unread postAuthor: SpudBlaster15 » Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:57 pm

Never buy anything from United Nuclear. Their prices are extremely high in comparison to almost every other supplier. BCarms appears to have reasonable pricing, so if you can't find a local supplier, I would order from there.

KNO3 can be obtained at hardware stores as stump remover, but it is very expensive ($10/lb usually). You can also manufacture it using ammonium nitrate, which is found in instant cold packs, and potassium chloride, which is found as a dietary salt substitute. If you want more details on the process, just let me know.

Sulfur can be found in the gardening section of most hardware stores. It is used as a fungicide. The purity is usually rather good(>90%).

Charcoal is by far the most important component of Black Powder. Your charcoal should be made by heating a low density wood to about 540*F in the absence of oxygen. This is usually done with a retort. Good types of wood to cook include weeping willow, black billow, red alder, black alder, white pine (not yellow pine), spruce, and black cottonwood. Commercial "lump wood" charcoal is acceptable, but NEVER use charcoal briquettes, they are filled with binders which significantly reduce the performance of your powder.

Has anyone had any luck with ammonium nitrate? The different recipes I tried all resulted in pretty crappy propellant, from what Ive learned you apparently need to phase stabilize it, Im still unsure of what that means.


Ammonium Nitrate is extremely hygroscopic, and must be dried in an oven prior to manufacturing any propellant using it. Any compositions made using NH4NO3 should be used immediately after manufacture, or it will suck water from the atmosphere and become useless within as little as a few hours.
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Unread postAuthor: Killjoy » Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:57 pm

Yeah united nuclear has kind of lost its appeal due to its price, and since the lawsiut thing against a chemical supplier, united nuclear doesn't sell most chlorates and perchlorates which i have been using for rocket fuel.
I still like skylighter though dispite the age verifacation because they still sell german aluminum and they have pretty good prices.
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Unread postAuthor: paaiyan » Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:59 pm

So, I have written down somewhere a good kno3/sucrose ratio for smoke bombs, what's a good one for rockets?
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Unread postAuthor: BC Pneumatics » Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:04 pm

3:2 KNO3:Sucrose (Same as smoke 'bombs') is used a lot, but 13:7 gives a better impulse.
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Unread postAuthor: SpudBlaster15 » Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:04 pm

The best ratio for KNO3/Sucrose propellant is 65/35 by mass.

EDIT: Damn you BC. :P


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Unread postAuthor: BC Pneumatics » Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:33 pm

Sorry SB, couldn't resist! :P
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Unread postAuthor: Fnord » Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:51 pm

Ammonium Nitrate is extremely hygroscopic, and must be dried in an oven prior to manufacturing any propellant using it. Any compositions made using NH4NO3 should be used immediately after manufacture, or it will suck water from the atmosphere and become useless within as little as a few hours.


Couldn't you just seal your rocket/charge/whatever with a layer of parrafin wax to prevent it from absorbing moisture?
I havent seen any KNO3 'round here :(
I have found that for cheap thrills you can just repack powder from normal bottle rockets in a larger tube. It seems to work up to par with what is described here. Its probably a little safer than melting kno3/sucrose too.
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Unread postAuthor: BC Pneumatics » Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:25 am

No, it isn't safer. And technically, it is a crime (Felony?)
You aren't allowed to modify 'fireworks'

Sealing it may work, it would depend on your system. All in all, KNO3 is just a better bet.
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