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Possible new computer

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Unread postAuthor: spuzi14 » Sun May 06, 2007 10:47 am

I already got the new computer.
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Unread postAuthor: cash68 » Sun May 06, 2007 12:07 pm

Ah, that's unfortunate.
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Unread postAuthor: spuzi14 » Sun May 06, 2007 2:51 pm

Would you like to buy me a Mac Mini?
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Unread postAuthor: MrCrowley » Sun May 06, 2007 3:01 pm

A good cheap computer...which im about to make is...

Intel Dual Core Duo E4400
GA-965P-DS3P Rev 3.3 motherboard
320gb Hard Drive
Jetram 1gb PC2-6400 800mhz DDR2
ASUS DVDRW SATA,Dual Layer Lightscribe
Inno3D Nvidia 8600GT 256mb DDR3 PCIE
400W Thermaltake PSU

And that comes to about $900+NZD or $660US
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Unread postAuthor: Pete Zaria » Sun May 06, 2007 3:07 pm

MrCrowley wrote:A good cheap computer...which im about to make is...

Intel Dual Core Duo E4400
GA-965P-DS3P Rev 3.3 motherboard
320gb Hard Drive
Jetram 1gb PC2-6400 800mhz DDR2
ASUS DVDRW SATA,Dual Layer Lightscribe
Inno3D Nvidia 8600GT 256mb DDR3 PCIE
400W Thermaltake PSU

And that comes to about $900+NZD or $660US


Specs look excellent for the price, but I'd seriously consider a higher-quality (Asus, maybe?) motherboard, and anything but Jetram. Jetram sucks. Corsair, OCZ, Patriot, Kingston are all good.

That'll be a sweet machine. Take your time and do things right the first time, and let us know how it goes :)

Peace,
Pete Zaria.
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Unread postAuthor: MrCrowley » Sun May 06, 2007 3:24 pm

Yeah I know about the jetram and the MB. But this needs to be a cheap computer under $1000NZD(so far $900+NZD) and the corsair/kingston ram is about $200NZD plus for a 1GB module and other well known/decent RAM brands cost the same as the JETRAM and are only about PC2-5200 at 667Mhz. I've just found this motherboard for the same price: [ASUS] P5N-E SLI
http://c1com.co.nz/shop/step1.php?number=10339

This is the gigabyte one I was going to get:
http://c1com.co.nz/shop/step1.php?number=10397

So ill swap the motherboard with that ASUS one and then for the ram
I will invest an extra $30NZD and get:
http://c1com.co.nz/shop/step1.php?number=10021

Feel free to browse around the site and pick out better components if you think it will be worth it in the long run.
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Unread postAuthor: cash68 » Sun May 06, 2007 5:16 pm

Mac minis are cheaper than what you mentioned, you can run OSX, and you don't need to mess with anything. It's superior to any windows computer, as long as you don't care about gaming much.
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Unread postAuthor: integral » Sun May 06, 2007 6:33 pm

Superior to any windows computer? Just look at MrCrowley's posted specs for $660USD. MacMini starts off with its base model @ $599USD.
Allow me to compare:
CPU: E4400 Core 2 Duo @ 2.0GHz 800MHz FSB(PC) vs 1.66GHz Core Duo 667MHz FSB/optional 1.83GHz Core Duo(MAC)
HDD: 320GB-Sata i presume? (PC) vs 60GB SATA/optional 160GB SATA (MAC)
RAM: 1GB PC2-6400 @ 800MHz (PC) vs 512MB PC2-5300 @ 667MHz
GPU: Nvidia 8600GT 256Mb DDR3 PCIe (PC) vs Intel GMA 950 graphics processor with 64MB of DDR2 SDRAM shared with main memory (MAC)

The PC mentioned by MrCrowley is obviously the superior machine here when put up against the MacMini. Anyone that knows only the basics about computers and their components can easily come to the same conclusion just by comparing the nominal values.

The PC CPU is the new Core2 chip whilst the Mac still being an intel based system, only sports the older Core Duo chip, at a FSB of 200MHz slower.

The HDD on the PC is double the amount of storage than the TOP model's 160GB and more than 4 times the optional base upgrade of 80GB on the Mac.

The RAM is sets both machines far apart with the Mac only running half the amount of memory the PC does and only at 667MHz.

Coupled with its horrible integrated graphics leeching 64MB of its already sparse system memory, the Mac is completely outdone by the PC's 8600GT onboard GPU with 266MB of its own memory.

So as you can see, the far more superior product here would obviously be the PC and for only $60 more, buying the Mac is kidna like buying a moped when the production bike is only a few extra bucks. The comparison of the prices were taken from the MacMini site http://www.apple.com/macmini/specs.html and MrCrowley's post.
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Unread postAuthor: Pete Zaria » Mon May 07, 2007 12:13 am

@McCrowley,

You can't go wrong with an Asus board. The Kingston ram also looks good.

Some random tips for building a PC scratch:

I like to get on a working machine and download all the latest drivers for the new system and burn them to a CD so that I can use the latest ones instead of using the ones on the provided CDs and then have to upgrade later.

I also like to patch the bios to the latest version before I even start installing the OS, if possible. Frequently newer BIOS's have patches to common issues that will make your install much easier.

Also, if you're using a non-stock heatsink, use a THIN layer of some good thermal paste (like artic silver 5), it drops CPU temp by as much as 10F. If you're using the stock heatsink it should have a good thermal pad on the bottom, just make sure you get it seated properly.

Remember to set up your airflow one direction: fans in the front/side panel sucking air in, fans in the back/top blowing hot air out. Also, good cable management (zip ties, anyone?) helps a lot with airflow.

Overall, just take your time and try to do things right the first time.

If you have problems during the build, I'll probably be around, feel free to ask questions. Good luck :)

Peace,
Pete Zaria.

PS - some specs on a machine I just finished assembling for a friend, for comparison in the Mac vs PC debate above:

Mobo: Asus M2NPV-VM socket AM2 with PCIEx16, SATA, RAID, and integrated GeForce 6150 (non-SLI board)

CPU: AMD Athlon64 socket AM2 5200+ "Windsor" dual 2.6GHz cores with dual 1mb caches, on a 2000MHz HTT link (AMD's equivalent of Intel's FSB), easily overclocked to 3.0GHz per core on air cooling

RAM: 2GB (2x1GB dual channel) OCZ Platinum DDR2 PC8000 Low Latency

HDDs: Dual Sygate 320GB SATA2 7200rpm 16mb cache drives in RAID1 (mirrored, for data backup and read speed)

Optical: LG18x DVD+/-RW "super multi" burner

Monitor: ViewSonic 22" LCD widescreen (on sale for $269.99)

Grand total including the monitor, a heatsink, a USB hub, a keyboard and mouse, a card reader, and shipping, was $1080. I charged him $150 to assemble it, install Windows and all the drivers, update and configure everything, torture test it, and transfer all his crap from his old machine to his new one.

If you can get a mac with dual 2.6GHz cores, 2gb ram, dual 320gb's in RAID, and a 22" monitor for even DOUBLE that price, I'll be astounded.

The quality of parts and workmanship would also not be as good. Plus, your choices of software are limited and much more expensive. Additionally, a Mac cannot network or exchange files with a Windows machine without extensive configuration, regardless of what they say - have you tried to get OSX to communicate with a Windows ActiveDirectory network lately? Or for that matter, even tried to email a simple Word file to a friend on XP or Vista?

Look, the truth is, Linux, FreeBSD, and the other open-source operating systems are probably the best all-around computing platform. Windows works out pretty well for most home users.
Mac has it's place and its purpose, but it is NOT the "best PC", nor necessarily the best choice for home users. It is easier to use, and more secure (or should I say less vulnerable?) but it's a trade off; mac's are more expensive, less compatible and less customizable.
Open-source operating systems are inherently the most secure and most customizable. Some of them, such as Linux Debian, are also very easy to use. Lack of compatibility with the Windows world, and people's fear of anything command-line-based, are the only reasons Linux isn't already the most widely used OS.

This rant brought to you by your friendly forum resident computer guru, Pete Zaria.
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Unread postAuthor: cash68 » Mon May 07, 2007 4:30 pm

integral wrote:Superior to any windows computer? Just look at MrCrowley's posted specs for $660USD. MacMini starts off with its base model @ $599USD.
Allow me to compare:blah blah blah blah blah


By that rational, a camaro 'is better' than a BMW, because it's faster in a straight line. Sorry. I don't buy it. You also have to run windows, and you don't get apple's easy to use applications. He mentioned he didn't need to run games, so there is no need for a real 3d graphics card, integrated graphics will work just fine. You're whining about all the hardware differences, when in reality the OS is what makes it a good computer. I'd much rather have a slower, quiet, nicely built vehicle than a really fast, noisy, loud, uncomfortable vehicle.
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Unread postAuthor: MrCrowley » Sun May 13, 2007 4:26 am

I am running games, just not on full settings, just decent settings like medium or high(if you can go higher).
Also I decided to go with the AMD Athlon64 X2 4800+ processor due to the one I was going to get run out and the next lowest price is like $50NZD($30US) more. I also spent a bit more money on everything else and didn't by a Graphics card as i'll get a better one then a 8600 for my b'day. The computer will end up being reasonably powerful for its price and components.
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Unread postAuthor: rna_duelers » Sun May 13, 2007 6:21 am

I am not very computer minded but when my dad got this computer built about a year ago I was happy with the specs.350GB memory-2GB Ram-3.2GHZ-512MB Graphics card and some other stuff,it was built by a friend so he wouldn't screw us around...I guess and hope...

I was all happy with it,until I learnt it had Vista installed on it and from that point on its gone down hill,Vista is possible the worst invention next to the auto-matic shoe buffer.Coming from XP to Vista was nearly impossible,trying to use it is hard its slower and used up 30GB of space on our hardrive!I mean 30GB..WTF?I have got used to it now but I would do anything to go back to XP but all my info and important software is on here now.Ohh and another thing..Trying to install software and programs,nearly Fuking Impossible sometimes without a Computer expert by my side....Vista is a hunk of crap and any one thinking of buying it...DO NOT.

Don't Buy Vista!
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Unread postAuthor: cash68 » Sun May 13, 2007 10:02 pm

rna_duelers wrote:I am not very computer minded but when my dad got this computer built about a year ago I was happy with the specs.350GB memory-2GB Ram-3.2GHZ-512MB Graphics card and some other stuff,it was built by a friend so he wouldn't screw us around...I guess and hope...

I was all happy with it,until I learnt it had Vista installed on it and from that point on its gone down hill,Vista is possible the worst invention next to the auto-matic shoe buffer.Coming from XP to Vista was nearly impossible,trying to use it is hard its slower and used up 30GB of space on our hardrive!I mean 30GB..WTF?I have got used to it now but I would do anything to go back to XP but all my info and important software is on here now.Ohh and another thing..Trying to install software and programs,nearly Fuking Impossible sometimes without a Computer expert by my side....Vista is a hunk of crap and any one thinking of buying it...DO NOT.

Don't Buy Vista!


Welcome to the wonderful world of microsoft. Meanwhile, I'm loving my mac, OSX is great, it never crashes, and I love how easy to use the O/S as well as most applications are. I can use windows, but I strongly dislike it. I was reading somewhere about the number of clicks and steps it takes to do simple things in both OSs, and I think it was every single time, it took fewer steps with less choices on a mac. That's the OS's in a nutshell. Can I reprogram my TI85's BIOS with a mac, or update the firmware on my blender? Probably not, but you probably can in windows. Luckily, newer intel macs can boot windows if needed, or run windows apps through OSX with the installation of some other software. Then you get the best of both worlds.

An easy to use, intuitive, crash free OS, great programs that are fun and easy to use, and the ability to run some weird oddball windows program if you need it, but 99% of the time no thank you, I'd like to be as far away from MS as possible.
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Unread postAuthor: paaiyan » Sun May 13, 2007 10:23 pm

But do Half-Life 2, Medal of Honor, Unreal Tourney, Age of Empires 2&3, Starcraft, or Ghost Recon work on a Mac?
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Unread postAuthor: ammosmoke » Sun May 13, 2007 10:26 pm

By that rational, a camaro 'is better' than a BMW, because it's faster in a straight line. Sorry. I don't buy it. You also have to run windows, and you don't get apple's easy to use applications. He mentioned he didn't need to run games, so there is no need for a real 3d graphics card, integrated graphics will work just fine. You're whining about all the hardware differences, when in reality the OS is what makes it a good computer. I'd much rather have a slower, quiet, nicely built vehicle than a really fast, noisy, loud, uncomfortable vehicle.


For one thing, quiet has nothing to do with whether it is a pc or not!!! It only has to do with the fans and the hardrive. And plus, the hard drive he was talking about is very nice, and very quiet. And, almost any fan that you buy at a parts store is better than your average dell fan. (Most dell pieces are crap.) If you wanted to, you could install mac os on any computer you want! It was nothing to do with who manufactured it. So, if I installed my mac on my dell, does it automatically become physically more reliable? No.... For heavens sake, the compact mac g5, (the all one piece thing) had problems with overheating because it had so much stuff crammed in it! Nobody is going to be able to sell you parts for those things except mac, because they all have to be so tini! Mac makes things "streamlined" to the point of rediculousness. On the other hand, I dont really care for "windoze" bs either... I prefer linux, until I want to play a windows game lol.
This has been my rant.

EDIT: Sorry for my rant, that was a little uncalled for...

EDIT: Actually, there are mac copies of most windows games, however they usually cost more... For instance, the mac copy of halo costs $45 (still), and the windows version is only about 10. Or less, for that matter.
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