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Should I buy a new truck?

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Unread postAuthor: ammosmoke » Sat Jun 02, 2007 2:54 am

Another ignorant statement. Handling happens whenever you deviate from a straight line. If you live in south dakota, and only drive on the highway, your argument would hold some water, but even then the cons of a truck quickly stack up against it (poor safety, mpg, braking, ride, emergency manuvers, etc)
Quote:
My dad's truck accelerates faster than many cars I have been in, so what. It rides nicer than most japanese cars i've been in, is quieter inside, and doesn't feel like I have a blanket insulating me from the road noise. (Ram 1500 with hemi)



This just means you haven't been in many cars. At all. If you find a truck 'quiet' I'm guessing you've never even been in a car. Your statements go from ignorant to wrong, and quickly jump up to pure insanity.
Quote:
Oh yeah, and the engine doesn't sound like some bees buzzing around in a bottle. Japanese cars may last longer, but they sure seem cheap when you get inside.



... I'm really trying hard not to call you a freakin idiot, considering Toyota, Lexus, Acura, and Subaru have higher fit and finish ratings than almost any domestic brand except caddillac. My Subaru has leather seats, a suede/padded vinyl dash, and door panels with matching suede and padded vinyl. Everything is soft, and luxurious. It was designed by Guigiaro of italdesign, in Italy. You really don't know what the hell you're talking about, and you're making broad generalizations that simply aren't true. You obviously don't read up on cars at all, and you're not a vehicular obsessive person like me, and I'm sorry to say, but I know a LOT more than you about this subject, and what you're saying is just plain made up bullshit.
Quote:
I admit it, I am a sucker for trucks,




No way.
Quote:
but if you get in a crash with a car in one, guess who's going to live?



Actually you're COMPLETELY and TOTALLY wrong. Deathrates are much MUCH higher in pickups/suvs than they are for cars.

The majority of SUV drivers claim that they’re safer in an SUV, but unfortunately, they’re completely and totally wrong. They are not safer. In fact, it’s generally the opposite. How could that possibly be? The same features that make SUVs good at driving off the road are exactly what make them so dangerous on the road. First, the SUV frame itself is usually very stiff, and heavily reinforced. It’s designed like this not only to support the increased weight of the large vehicle, but also to withstand the abuse of shocks, jolts, and stresses caused by driving off-road. This heavy-duty frame also lacks crumple zones, or areas designed to deform and compress in an accident, dispersing vast amounts of energy, and slowing down the occupants a bit more gradually. Instead, this stiff frame doesn’t crumple, and the shocks and jolts of even a minor accident are transferred directly into the passenger compartment. A car doesn’t do this. The average car is designed to sacrifice itself to save its occupants, by crumpling as much as possible, excluding the passenger compartment. SUVs are not designed like this; they’re designed to withstand impacts without crumpling. This makes them more hazardous than cars.

According to the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, passenger car deaths have risen 2% since 1975, whereas SUV deaths have skyrocketed over 1000%. But wait, surely this can be explained by the increased number of SUVs on the road since 1975, right? Wrong.

"“In 1998, there were 130 million passenger cars registered in the USA, and 16 million SUVs. According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, there were 119,000 car rollovers and 36,000 SUV rollovers that year. That means that for every 100,000 vehicles, 91 cars rolled over -- and 225 SUVs, a figure almost three times as high. When it
comes to deaths, the disparity is even greater; for every 100,000 vehicles there are 3.4 deaths in car rollovers, but 10.1 in SUV rollovers (a figure over three times as high). As to the rarity of rollover accidents, once again we must look at NHTSA figures. For the 130 million cars,
there were 29,000 fatal accidents in 1998 -- a death rate of 22 per 100,000 vehicles. For the 16 million SUVs, there were 4,500 fatalities, which means a death rate of 28 per 100,000”
(Murray). "

If you want I could keep going, but it's pretty clear you're outgunned in this area, badly.
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Plus, subaru's tow nowhere near the same amount your average truck can.



Newsflash: Most people don't tow what their truck is advertised to tow. People using 'towing capacity' like a dick contest. Great. It can tow 100,000 lbs. Awesome. But who the fork ever does that? Like .05% of the population. It's sad to say, but most trucks/suvs I see don't even have trailer hitches.
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EDIT: Oh yeah, my dad's truck handles pretty well also, very carlike handling.



Bullshit. You're saying a dodge ram with a hemi handles well? It has a live axles, and leaf springs. You seriously know absolute DICK about cars. What is the slalom speed for a ram? 55.9mph.

http://www.trucktrend.com/oftheyear/tru ... k_of_the_y ear_testing/2006_dodge_ram_1500.html

What is the slalom speed for a honda accord? Over 64mph. Hell, dodge neon slalom? 69mph.

You are completley ignorant. I'm sorry to rant, but I can't stand stupid people attempting to sound like they're right.

If any of you are HONESTLY up for debating with me, please read my research paper on the safety of SUVs located here:

http://chicane.myftp.org/SUVresearchpaper.pdf


Seriously, take a chill pill. I have been in lots of japanese cars, and they all seemed to have more road noise than the truck. With the exception of the toyota tundra. I have had, your right, relatively bad experiences with japanese cars. But about the crash part, I was talking about SUV to small car collision. Of course its more likely to roll over. Especially if you drive like a maniac.

I'm not as ignorant as you say I am. I regularly read articles about cars, and I am aware of many stats, as well as reviews. I was simply saying that newer trucks handle much better than the stereotype you have placed on them. Those cars, too, were in nowhere near the same category in handling. Civics and such are marked for their good handling characteristics. Old chev trucks and such handle like crap. I totally agree.

Ok, and I'm not a hick or anything. I get all A's and B's, and plan on going to college and making lots of money. Just like you don't appreciate trucks, I don't appreciate subaru's. No offense, but I think that car in the pic was ugly.

And wtf about never being in a car? I have been in too many to count, and unless they were a mercedes or lexus, they were not as quiet. My dad's truck has a full (real) leather interior, and heated seats, and all those nice amenities. It is QUIET. I know quiet when I experience it. Now, screaming exhaust, now there's something else to that. I appreciate it.

I am not in for a penile replacement contest either. That is rediculous. Now granted, there are a few people out there who lack self-confidence, and I'm not one of them. I just like having a nice, shiny truck with big rims.

And wtf are you talking about when you say most trucks don't have trailer hitches!?!? Wait, do you mean hitch ports or hitches? In the cas of ports every single one I see has one. It is STANDARD. And I live in liberal central Seattle. Our boat weighs 5,000lbs on trailer. So, I don't think that the subaru can tow that.

The Ram's hood would crumple if you hit it with your fist. It flexes even when you lift it.

And when you said above that you didn't want to piss us off, then what WERE you trying to do? You really pissed me off.

You say I make broad generalizations, when you have made plenty.
And don't get me wrong, I appreciate Japanese cars when they are tuned and pimped out, but stock, eh, they just don't do anything for me.

Why is it that that you are so concerned with "outgunning" me? Have I hurt your penile ego? It goes both ways, so please, stop it.

EDIT: Eh, about the Rav4. I was in one that was about from 2000, and it was really cramped. I mean REALLY. In the back seat, two people can touch shoulders. And in the case of my carpooling situation, you are crammed together, and can't even breath properly. Literally. As far as driving it goes, I have no idea. And the rear seats are extremely uncomfortable, they have these weird plastic bolsters for your lower back on the sides, that jab into your back. And, in the center, half the backrest is hard plastic that also jabs into your back. And, your knees are in the front seat, preventing you from being able to move. Clearly, it wasn't well though out. I don't know about the front, because my friend always got it because it was his mom's car. :x . Hope this helps.
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Unread postAuthor: WOW!! » Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:26 am

cash68 wrote:Trucks have crap handling, crap braking, they aren't safe (deathrate per 10,000 vehicles is 3x higher than cars), have poor response, and are not very nice to drive in general, especially on rough surfaces. Get a car. They're faster, handle better, safer, more fun to drive, and they're just nicer in genral.


What truck do you drive? And if you get hit by a dumptruck which would you feel more safer in? A truck that protects you more or a mini cooper???
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Unread postAuthor: goathunter » Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:33 am

Well now that we all have pistols to each others heads(saw Pirates last night).Let us get back to whether or not I should trade in my truck.I would be more than happy to get a diesel,my dad makes biodesiel after all.My only issue is, I'm heading off to college and Biodesiel will be hard to make in my dorm.I was leaning towards small SUV's. I've got a rather shallow budget ,3 grand.Who has had experience with expedition,4runner and the like?I'd like to get the truck for the summer.And my dad has a friend who owns a car lot,he'll be able to get me whatever I want.
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Unread postAuthor: ammosmoke » Sun Jun 03, 2007 4:33 pm

Well, the expedition is defininitely not small for starters. I like the nissan Xterra. It has descent room, and it has comfortable seats in the back, unlike the Rav4. Oh yeah, and I think it looks good. So there, I like a Japanese car. :shock: I am not completely against them, I just don't like most of them.

EDIT: I would still want to get a diesel, even if you could only get regular. It is cheaper than having a gas one, and more powerful.
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Unread postAuthor: cash68 » Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:15 pm

markfh11q wrote:Fine. Next time you're in trouble, try calling a crack-head.


You'd be better off, where I live. The MPD is corrupt as hell. Check out some of milwaukee's finest right here:

http://milwaukee.indymedia.org/en/2005/07/203873.shtml

And sorry, I've never been 'in trouble' and needed to call the police. I can take care of myself. Every cop I know was a loser in high school, and only chose their job because they have a 'god complex' where they like to assert power over others.

I'm not talking about people who graduate college, I'm talking about people who graduate high school and don't go to college. I'm saying that I'd rather work in a factory than a supermarket, basically.


>shrug< Have you WORKED in a factory before? Just wondering.

This is irrelevant.


Actually it's completely relevant, because you know exactly what I'm talking about. JIMBOB the hick is more likely to get a truck. Does he NEED a truck? Who knows. But if he drove a car, his hick friends would give him crap for it, calling it a pussy vehicle, and that it can't 'tow x amount' like a few other posters have already brought up (even though the original poster said nothing about towing).

I drive a truck with no trailer-hitch and a "shiny bed", (because I don't want to buy a truck liner right now, especially since the cheap ones will allow water under them and rust your bed), and I have a cumulative GPA of 3.8 so far and an ACT score of 28. :wink: My friend drives a brand-new Tacoma with off-road package and had a cumulative GPA of 3.7 and an ACT of 25.


So you're a poser. You don't tow, or haul, yet you want the macho image. Why?! Would you feel less manly driving a car? I suppose you think soccer moms trading in minivans for Hummer H2s is also a good idea. And.... not to be a jerk, but neither of those scores is very impressive.

Plenty of people drive trucks simply because they like them... not to make a statement about penile mass. The only off-roading my truck saw was when I ran it through two ditches and a culvert. :P


Yes, but WHAT is there to like? Compared to the average car, they are slower, have poor brakes, poor handling, poor response, poor gas mileage, poor safety, poor sound deadening, and a poor ride. So that leaves.... what exactly?
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Unread postAuthor: ammosmoke » Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:32 pm

Poor brakes? So thats why they can stop a 5,000lb trailer! Oh!

Oh yeah, and it leaves good looks, and a V8 growl.
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Unread postAuthor: cash68 » Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:38 pm

goathunter wrote:Mark,You and I have the same mindset.I drive a truck because I enjoy it and I live on a farm.I no longer need to haul around as much stuff but I need passenger capability.


Get a minivan. They are designed to carry PEOPLE and gear safely and efficiently. But of course, you laugh at this. Why is your manhood threatened by vehicle choice?

I think Cash has some serious issues since he sounds like a city slicker himself.


I grew up in the country, actually.

I've found the city dwellers to be some of the most ignorant people around.


There are some, for sure. The crazy liberals who want to ban all guns, the ones who feel bad for everybody, and the ones that want to save all the animals while they walk around in leather designer sandals. I'm not that type. And I've found hicks/macho truck owners to be BEYOND ignorant. They go from being stupid and not understanding something to straight up violence, without ever attempting to realize that maybe they're wrong. I was talking to this one guy one time about why he shouldn't just 'drive' in the passing lane, and how that lane is for passing, and that when you aren't passing, you should move to the right, so other people can pass you, and he would simply not agree with me. When I asked him what he did when he was 'driving' in the passing lane and came up to a car going 10 under the speed limit, he said he'd get pissed off and flash his brights and stuff. Then I explained that by staying in the passing lane, he IS that person, and then he just started getting pissed off, starting calling me gay, when I asked him why he couldn't just admit that maybe he was wrong, he wanted to fight. Whatever.

They have a god complex and nothing to back it up.A college degree is a piece of paper that is it,Nothing more.I will guarantee that the average mechanic is smarter than any college grad.


I find that hicks have an ignorance complex, and are almost proud of being ignorant, racist, homophobic, and chauvanistic pigs. And sorry, a college degree is NOT a piece of paper. In today's society, if you DON'T have a degree, it's extremely hard to land almost ANY type of job. Not having a degree is a sign of either being a complete retard, OR being in the job field where you are competing against illegal immigrant labor, or your job could possibly be taken by a robot (construction work and factories). If we didn't have such a HUGE illegal immigrant problem, I would agree that 'not' having a degree wouldn't be such a bad thing, but in today's world, I'm sorry, IT IS. Businesses WANT people with degrees. They're generally more exposed to the world, & have a more rounded education.

As for your 'average mechanic', what makes you think they're very intelligent? I've worked with a LOT of mechanics. Some were bright, some not so much. But generally, looking up a job on ALLDATA and printing off step by step instructions on how to do it, with pictures, isn't very hard. For me, personally, I don't find cars very hard to understand, and I've worked on them since I can remember. My first car was a 68 Dodge Charger with a 383 hurst 4spd. I did tons of things to that car, and learned a lot, and NONE of it was all that complex, or hard to understand. Working on car, when it isn't troubleshooting, is generally just a step by step procedure of completing simple tasks.

Let us take my dad for example,
he was a mechanic for 25 yrs. and was never able to finish college(>1.5yrs). Now he does this:It is called aquaponics, and this is a basic training system he set up.Most colleges have refused to use it because of its"lack of sustainability", which of course is an excuse because the Phd.'s cannot stand being wrong.This system is implemented all over the world.Africa,Europe,Australia,and Asia.Yet US colleges will not accept it because of their close mindedness.
http://backyardaquaponics.com/pics/barrel-ponics.pdf


Uh... you've obviously never met a stoner. Hydroponics has been around a long time, and MANY labs use water instead of soil to grow plants. What, exactly, is new here?

Now tell me is this the "country bumkin" you are referring to?And yes I live in the country and am proud to call myself a redneck.


So basically you're proud of being uneducated, racist, bigoted, homophobic, violent, drunk, stupid, ignorant, and sometimes inbred. Why? Those are all common characteristics of what 'redneck' means. Why are you proud of this?
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Unread postAuthor: SpudBlaster15 » Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:40 pm

Cash, you need to learn to respect other's opinions, and stop being so close minded.

Ok, so cars appeal more to you than trucks. This is your opinion, based on facts derived from YOUR experiences. Not everyone has had experiences similar to yours, and thus, they base their opinion of what is 'better' on something entirely different. That is exactly why it is called an OPINION.

Some may prefer to drive trucks because they want to impose the macho image upon themselves. Who are you to judge them? The world does not have to conform to a set of guidelines, no matter how much you feel it should. Why should anyone else's opinion be degraded simply because YOU do not agree with it?

Respect the opinions of others, and you too will be respected.
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Unread postAuthor: cash68 » Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:42 pm

goathunter wrote:Well now that we all have pistols to each others heads(saw Pirates last night).Let us get back to whether or not I should trade in my truck.I would be more than happy to get a diesel,my dad makes biodesiel after all.My only issue is, I'm heading off to college and Biodesiel will be hard to make in my dorm.I was leaning towards small SUV's. I've got a rather shallow budget ,3 grand.Who has had experience with expedition,4runner and the like?I'd like to get the truck for the summer.And my dad has a friend who owns a car lot,he'll be able to get me whatever I want.


For only 3 grand, I think the choice is pretty clear:

A used nissan pathfinder (predecessor to the Xterra). You can find them for $1500-4000 in decent shape, and since you obviously don't care about acceleration, braking, handling, safety, or gas mileage, it's a great choice. They're really dependable, and they have 4wd Low for all those times when you'll never go offroading. My friend had one, and it was great, the 1% of the time when it was actually off the road.
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Unread postAuthor: ammosmoke » Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:45 pm

cash68 wrote:So basically you're proud of being uneducated, racist, bigoted, homophobic, violent, drunk, stupid, ignorant, and sometimes inbred. Why? Those are all common characteristics of what 'redneck' means. Why are you proud of this?


Ah, here we go again with the stereotyping.

A truck can carry 15 people in the bed, and if you are on a farm, safety is fine. There is no way a minivan can do this.
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Unread postAuthor: hi » Sun Jun 03, 2007 11:02 pm

a college degree is NOT a piece of paper


you right, its a peice of paper with a little stamp on it.

again, respect other people's opinions.

once there was (this is a true story) a delivery truck that went under a bridge and got stuck because it was to tall for the bridge. all day long the "educated" people worked and worked to get the truck out and they couldn't. the repoters from the local paper were there and everything and after hours and hours of getting no where, a little boy about 7 or 8 years old came up riding on his bike, looked at what was happening and said "why dont you let the air out of the tires"? geuss how they got the truck out.......


the point is that all people should be treated the same until you know for a fact that they are idiots.

and by the way, if you drive a van or small car here at my house when you are working on the feilds, you will get stuck before you know what happened.
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Unread postAuthor: goathunter » Sun Jun 03, 2007 11:26 pm

A used nissan pathfinder (predecessor to the Xterra). You can find them for $1500-4000 in decent shape, and since you obviously don't care about acceleration, braking, handling, safety, or gas mileage, it's a great choice. They're really dependable, and they have 4wd Low for all those times when you'll never go offroading. My friend had one, and it was great, the 1% of the time when it was actually off the road.


Gas mileage is about the only thing in that list I care about and I want it slightly better than my 5.7L pickup.

FYI: roading frequently turns to offroading in my neck of the woods.We have a wonderful thing called hurricanes that come through a couple times a year.They turn everything into a giant mudhole.
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Unread postAuthor: ammosmoke » Sun Jun 03, 2007 11:27 pm

LOL, seriously.
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Unread postAuthor: cash68 » Sun Jun 03, 2007 11:27 pm

ammosmoke wrote:Seriously, take a chill pill.


Take a reason pill. Read this research paper, that I wrote, and maybe you'll get why I'm so passionate about the stupidity of SUVs and trucks when they ARE NOT NEEDED. I fully stand by anybody who actually uses their truck/suv as intended though, but as car/minivan replacements, they are HORRIBLE.

I have been in lots of japanese cars, and they all seemed to have more road noise than the truck. With the exception of the toyota tundra. I have had, your right, relatively bad experiences with japanese cars. But about the crash part, I was talking about SUV to small car collision. Of course its more likely to roll over. Especially if you drive like a maniac.


Fortunately, MOST crashes do not involve an SUV and a small car. You are ignoring something: Trucks/SUVs have worse braking performance, handling and acceleartion than the average car. They also have a high center of gravity, and weak roofs, and lack of crumple zones. All of these factors= you are THREE TIMES MORE LIKELY TO DIE WHILE RIDING/DRIVING A TRUCK/SUV, than the average car. Sorry. They are the OPPOSITE of safer. Check my paper, I linked it above, everything is backed up with data from government agencies, and the national highway safety administration.

I'm not as ignorant as you say I am. I regularly read articles about cars, and I am aware of many stats, as well as reviews. I was simply saying that newer trucks handle much better than the stereotype you have placed on them. Those cars, too, were in nowhere near the same category in handling. Civics and such are marked for their good handling characteristics. Old chev trucks and such handle like crap. I totally agree.


They might be better than old trucks, but the thing is, THEY STILL SUCK compared to cars. Compare any new truck to any new car, and you will see:

1. Slower acceleration
2. Slower slalom speed
3. Worse braking (long distances from 60-0 or 100-0)

Ok, and I'm not a hick or anything. I get all A's and B's, and plan on going to college and making lots of money. Just like you don't appreciate trucks, I don't appreciate subaru's. No offense, but I think that car in the pic was ugly.


Have you even seen an SVX in real life? Just wondering. You either love or hate them, and once people ride in them, they usually love them.

Now, screaming exhaust, now there's something else to that. I appreciate it.


Me too, that's why I have a full stainless steel stebro exhaust sytem on my SVX. :) It sounds absolutely evil.

I am not in for a penile replacement contest either.


Ridiculous. Please learn to spell this correctly.

I just like having a nice, shiny truck with big rims.


So you like having a truck with dubs, so you can never take it offroad? That makes about as much sense as a lamborghini with super swampers.

And wtf are you talking about when you say most trucks don't have trailer hitches!?!? Wait, do you mean hitch ports or hitches? In the cas of ports every single one I see has one. It is STANDARD. And I live in liberal central Seattle. Our boat weighs 5,000lbs on trailer. So, I don't think that the subaru can tow that.


I'm saying the majority of SUVs and medium sized trucks I see do NOT have trailer hitches. Why? Because a lot of people buy an SUV/Truck and never tow anything.

The Ram's hood would crumple if you hit it with your fist. It flexes even when you lift it.


...


..

..

dude. IF you were to say... hit a tree... or a hit a car.... would the HOOD of the ram hit it? NO! The god damn bumper would! The frame rails would! The fact that the HOOD is soft makes no sense, I'm talking about CRUMPLE ZONES. As in, the vehicle deforms and disperses energy easily in a collision.

And when you said above that you didn't want to piss us off, then what WERE you trying to do? You really pissed me off.


Educate you. Read my report.

http://chicane.myftp.org/SUVresearchpaper.pdf

Seriously. Read the whole thing, becuase it's ALL FACTUAL INFORMATION.

You say I make broad generalizations, when you have made plenty. And don't get me wrong, I appreciate Japanese cars when they are tuned and pimped out, but stock, eh, they just don't do anything for me.


The difference is mine aren't made up crap. Mine are backed by information and data from the NHTSA (national highway traffic safety administration), the IIHS (insurance institute for highway safety), and a multitude of other reputable sources.
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Unread postAuthor: cash68 » Sun Jun 03, 2007 11:30 pm

goathunter wrote:
A used nissan pathfinder (predecessor to the Xterra). You can find them for $1500-4000 in decent shape, and since you obviously don't care about acceleration, braking, handling, safety, or gas mileage, it's a great choice. They're really dependable, and they have 4wd Low for all those times when you'll never go offroading. My friend had one, and it was great, the 1% of the time when it was actually off the road.


Gas mileage is about the only thing in that list I care about and I want it slightly better than my 5.7L pickup.

FYI: roading frequently turns to offroading in my neck of the woods.We have a wonderful thing called hurricanes that come through a couple times a year.They turn everything into a giant mudhole.


Then get one! :) It was a good vehicle. If I had a need for a cheap offroad vehicle, that's what I'd pick up (no pun intended). He has over 280,000 miles on it now, on the ORIGINAL engines and transmission (2 clutches though). It has 4wd low and hi, and in 2wd it gets about 21mpg on the highway.
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cash68
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