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My First Spud Gun

Built a pneumatic cannon? Then post it here! This section is for completed, finished cannons that you have built. Please include pictures and information.
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Unread postAuthor: joannaardway » Wed Nov 29, 2006 5:52 pm

Ok, now my ranting is over... (for now)

Spudblaster - I have fallen into what you are doing many a time.

It's typical - someone challenges what you've said, and you know that you are right. I could link to topics on other forums as an example, but I won't.

Anyway. They challenge your opinion, you reply, then they reply with their view (with little consideration for yours).

Two things can happen here.

1) We can go at this like sane, logical people, and get this settled into a nice debate from which everyone comes away enlightened.
It may not reach a conclusion, but at least all points have been made.

2) One person starts bitching, then this spreads, and then you've got a huge inferno of flaming. The forum fire brigade comes along, and then they try and put this out. In worst cases, the only option is to completely choke the fire's fuel (by locking the topic).

Don't let these debates get personal. It's something I've learnt through thousands of posts across the net.

Organised debating is fine. But to quote you:

Wow, you are stubborn. You are going up against 2 morons now. Both with absolutely no experience with ABS!

This "edit" was not only pointless, it was rude and unnecessary. Does that sound like organised debate?

For future reference (for everyone), here are some golden rules of forum debating:

1) Challenge the points, not the people.
2) Provide evidence for your point as soon as possible.
3) Learn to back down if you're wrong - everyone can make mistakes.
4) Learn to see when the other side won't be backing down, and be prepared to withdraw quietly - even if they are "wrong".
5) Sound smart. Keep your posting with good grammar and spelling, and it will have a positive effect on your argument.

In short: Be polite, give evidence, keep your fire extinguisher handy, and retreat if needs be.
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Unread postAuthor: SpudStuff » Wed Nov 29, 2006 6:28 pm

Thank you Joanna.

Spudblaster: Even though the pipe looks solid core that dosn't mean it is. Fine, you may have solid wall pipe. Many people have already stated that the only pipe they can find is cellular core. Your pipe dosn't say solid core on it anywhere does it?

Take a piece EXACTLY 1" long of 4" sch 40 ABS and weigh it. If it is cellular core it will weigh the same as my ABS cellular core. Otherwise it will weigh substantially more.

Here is a High-Def knofe cut of the wall.

Image
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Unread postAuthor: -Skate- » Wed Nov 29, 2006 7:10 pm

HOLY crap. ABS = BAD. STOP FIGHTING.
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Unread postAuthor: sgort87 » Wed Nov 29, 2006 7:13 pm

No. This is something we would like cleared up. SpudStuff and I are not figting. I do not know what SpudBlaster's respons will be like, but I hope he continues in an intellegent manner.
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Unread postAuthor: SpudBlaster15 » Wed Nov 29, 2006 7:21 pm

Spudstuff, that picture means nothing as it is far too dark, you cannot see the edge of the pipe.

No, it does not state that the pipe is solid core, but it does not state that it is cellular core either, and based on its relatively high density aswell as the markings left behind by the saw, it is quite obvious that it is not cellular core.

When I buy some more 4", I will weigh it.
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Unread postAuthor: sgort87 » Wed Nov 29, 2006 7:24 pm

Then I'd go back to my assumption that if it has no pressure rating, it is DWV only and therefore cellular.

And yes, SpudStuff, though I believe you, the picture is very dark and should be retaken. Try taking the picture in a bathroom by the sink. Seriously. The light and the mirror helps.
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Unread postAuthor: -Skate- » Wed Nov 29, 2006 7:29 pm

EDIT: Nevermind, my picture sucked.
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Unread postAuthor: SpudBlaster15 » Wed Nov 29, 2006 7:37 pm

sgort87 wrote:it is DWV only and therefore cellular.


Perhaps you should look at THIS. To quote:

"ABS pipe is available in solid wall and cellular core construction in Schedule 40 dimensions. These two forms may be used interchangeably for DWV applications."

It also states:

"ABS pressure pipe is also available for certain industrial applications."

No correlation between solid wall and a pressure rating, although I am sure the pressure rated pipe is solid wall aswell.
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Unread postAuthor: SpudStuff » Wed Nov 29, 2006 7:42 pm

Yes I agree. The pressure rated stuff IS solid core. They had a small piece at my dad's work. It is for LP gas likes. Because the gas will destroy PVC and pit steep pipe. Dunno where that get it though.

The picture seems fine on my computer. Try ajusting the brightness on your screen.

Maby that means that the cellular core is DWV and the solid wall is pressure. Because they are both Sch 40 dimentions thay can be used together.
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Unread postAuthor: joannaardway » Thu Nov 30, 2006 4:31 am

People's ABS may well be solid wall/rated:

Pipestock (a UK site)

The Class E stuff is rated for 220 psi. That stuff would be suitable for a pneumatic, but it's not cheap. It's roughly $11.50 a foot, and can't be bought in lengths less than about 20 feet (6 metres really).

So, as we have already concluded:

-Cellular Core means not rated.
-Pressure rated means solid wall.
-Solid wall does not however always mean pressure rated - but it will be better than cellular core.
-Therefore: "Not pressure rated" can mean either cellular core, or solid wall.

I have plenty of solid wall pipe (yes, it's PVC but the point stands) hanging around that I know isn't very safe. (This being why I've stopped using it)

I have little doubt that Spudblaster's pipe is solid-wall. With regards to pressure rating, I'm not so sure.
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Unread postAuthor: SpudBlaster15 » Thu Nov 30, 2006 10:40 am

It is not pressure rated. If it were, the 2" pipe would cost far more than $1/ft, the 3" pipe would cost far more than $2/ft, and the 4" pipe would cost far more than $3/ft.
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Unread postAuthor: sgort87 » Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:09 am

SpudBlaster15 wrote:
sgort87 wrote:it is DWV only and therefore cellular.


Perhaps you should look at THIS. To quote:

"ABS pipe is available in solid wall and cellular core construction in Schedule 40 dimensions. These two forms may be used interchangeably for DWV applications."


Right, which is why I said DWV <b>only</b>. Of couse pressure pipe can be used in both.

This all makes sense, but the site you provided <b>still</b> does not say specifically that solid core non-pressure pipe exists.
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Unread postAuthor: PVC Arsenal 17 » Thu Nov 30, 2006 5:27 pm

does it really matter? Will anyone give a crap if you make a point?

The bottom line is this.... [steel > PVC & ABS]

now shut up
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Unread postAuthor: sgort87 » Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm

PVC Arsenal, I don't care if you don't care, but I, on the other hand, am actually genuinely interested in the classifications of ABS. I am willing to learn more and I really want this to play through and to clear itself up.

You made your point. It was rejected. Now take your own advice and shut up. :D
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Unread postAuthor: PVC Arsenal 17 » Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:49 pm

ahh well... I lose
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