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New (I hope...) valve idea/theory

Post questions and info about pneumatic (compressed gas) powered cannons here. This includes discussion about valves, pipe types, compressors, alternate gas setups, and anything else relevant.
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New (I hope...) valve idea/theory

Unread postAuthor: Pilgrimman » Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:52 pm

Imagine this: a ball valve, but it turns 360 degrees in one dirction, and is powered by a motor so it can be opened and closed quickly and continuously. It would be connected to a piston that would slide the bolt forward when the valve opens so that the loading and firing are in perfect sync (Like a piston/crankshaft in an engine, but the shaft moves the piston, not the other way around). Would this even be feasible? If you made the opening cycle fast enough, could one build a practical fully automatic gun? Could it even be a handheld? What kind of chamber volume would be required, or does it depend on opening speed/rate? I hope that any experienced members can answer this, because it'd be so awesome if someone did something like this. Any help/advice/ideas are appreciated :D
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Unread postAuthor: MaxuS » Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:54 pm

You'd have to find a reliable way of regulating shots, like a fast regulating....regulator.
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Unread postAuthor: Pilgrimman » Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:56 pm

I figured that would be a prerequisite for something like this, but, being the cheap bastard that I am, I was hoping I could get away without one... :lol:
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Unread postAuthor: iPaintball » Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:58 pm

Sadly, this has ben thought of already, but I do not beleive the loading system you dscribed has been.
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Unread postAuthor: Pilgrimman » Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:00 pm

Sweet! I'm good for something around here! :lol:
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Unread postAuthor: iPaintball » Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:03 pm

Wow, you replyed fast! The only problem I could possibly see with the system is complexity, other than that it seem feasible.
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Unread postAuthor: jrrdw » Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:52 pm

Rite off the bat, the 1 to 1 timing for the loading and firing is wrong. Imagine it in your head, the projectile trying to load as it is firing at the same time, whats going to happen??? The air flow from firing will more then likely push the projectile rite back out, or jam up some how. It would have to fire just after the breach closes.
Clides semi-auto is some what a good example of the basic process.
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Unread postAuthor: Pilgrimman » Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:32 pm

What I meant was that before the valve opens, the bolt is sealing off the hopper, and then the air is released. Then the valve closes and the bolt retracts. I really wish I could make a diagram, but I haven't got the skill for that... :oops:
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:27 pm

Usually this idea is presented with a hole drilled in the ball valve though which ammunition is fed, which eliminates the need for a separate reloading mechanism:

Image

(illustration by _Fnord)
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Unread postAuthor: Pilgrimman » Wed Sep 26, 2007 5:38 pm

I actually considered that, but I don't think it'd be very reliable, because it's a gravity feed, and the valve would be spinning fast, like 2 full turns per second, which means 4 shots per second. If the ammo fits the valve well, there's a good chance it wouldn't fall into the valve in time. (Anyone who's actually tried this correct me if I'm wrong). However, it'd be good for small shotgun style ammo, and that would eliminate the need for a bolt. I chose the bolt system because it would work for any diameter ammo, not just ammo equal to or smaller than the valve, regardless of valve diameter.
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Unread postAuthor: jrrdw » Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:21 pm

Pilgrimman wrote:I actually considered that, but I don't think it'd be very reliable, because it's a gravity feed, and the valve would be spinning fast, like 2 full turns per second, which means 4 shots per second. If the ammo fits the valve well, there's a good chance it wouldn't fall into the valve in time. (Anyone who's actually tried this correct me if I'm wrong). However, it'd be good for small shotgun style ammo, and that would eliminate the need for a bolt. I chose the bolt system because it would work for any diameter ammo, not just ammo equal to or smaller than the valve, regardless of valve diameter.


Ok senior members, sweep the cobwebs out of the memory banks and come up with the member name that built a shot gun style bolt action with loadable cartdriges. He posted the video of it in action, not of it firing, but of the loading action. I don't think it was entered into the contest. Who was it??? It would be great for Pilgrimman to study.
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Unread postAuthor: HaiThar » Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:50 pm

What do you plan to use to turn the valve
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Unread postAuthor: Scope » Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:01 pm

an pneumatic actuator would work really well in that situation, but they are air hogs.
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Unread postAuthor: TwitchTheAussie » Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:12 pm

jrrdw wrote:
Ok senior members, sweep the cobwebs out of the memory banks and come up with the member name that built a shot gun style bolt action with loadable cartdriges. He posted the video of it in action, not of it firing, but of the loading action. I don't think it was entered into the contest. Who was it??? It would be great for Pilgrimman to study.


Ill give it a search. I was thinking of this too actually.

Edit: heres what JSR made. This is what I was thinking of.

http://www.spudfiles.com/forums/cartridge-fed-pneumatic-prototype-t7176.html

P.S. Mods make the link small please :lol:
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:40 pm

jrrdw wrote:Ok senior members, sweep the cobwebs out of the memory banks and come up with the member name that built a shot gun style bolt action with loadable cartdriges. He posted the video of it in action, not of it firing, but of the loading action. I don't think it was entered into the contest. Who was it??? It would be great for Pilgrimman to study.


Do you mean Deus Ex Machina? As far as I know it was entered in the contest and actually did work, surprised it didn't do better in the scores actually.
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