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It using a CO2 tank that dangerous?

Post questions and info about pneumatic (compressed gas) powered cannons here. This includes discussion about valves, pipe types, compressors, alternate gas setups, and anything else relevant.
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Unread postAuthor: socoj2 » Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:47 pm

Brian the brain wrote:THere is nothing but CO2 in there, so what exactly is FREEZING ???

As far as I know, only water "freezes"..


There are 3 states of matter Solid Liquid and Gas

What you know as "FROZEN" is motly refered to as solid. Its commonly confused with Forzen because water is COLD when it reaches a solid state.

C02 has a boiling point of -76 Degrees, and only exist as a liquid under pressure.
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Unread postAuthor: DYI » Sat Dec 22, 2007 10:34 pm

I think the correct term is "solidification". That should avoid any further misunderstandings.

I really don't advocate the use of CO2 in PVC launchers (or PVC pneumatics in general), but with a 1/2" burst disk relief valve, the CO2 will never overcome the flow rate of the relief valve, and there will be no problems. I don't even know if I'd trust a standard popoff in the situation of liquid CO2 being pumped into the chamber, and a burst disk is cheaper anyway, as well as having no moving parts to fail.

There are 3 states of matter Solid Liquid and Gas

You shouldn't make generalisations like that, because someone's bound to point out the inaccuracy. There are quite a few more than 3 states of matter.
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Unread postAuthor: socoj2 » Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:18 am

You shouldn't make generalisations like that, because someone's bound to point out the inaccuracy. There are quite a few more than 3 states of matter.


For reference on this board there are 3 states of matter.. Solid Liquid and Gas.

While Plasma and Bose-Eisten condensates do count as states of matter, Most people not trying to show how big their Eg.. umm never mind would point them out.

So yea if some douche bag wants to point out that im wrong because i only included 3 states of matter for general conversation of a pnuematic forum.. He is more then welcome.. O umm wait...
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Unread postAuthor: Hailfire753 » Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:27 am

Wow. This thread sucks. :lol: Geez socoj2, RElax.... :wink:

CO2 is safe to use in PVC, as long as the temperature and pressure are kept at a constant medium, and it is regulated under the tested PSI of the PVC. While PVC becomes more brittle as it becomes colder, it actually becomes STRONGER. In other words, don't drop it.

Use a regulator, pop up, and expansion chamber, and there will be no problems. No, don't say anything.
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Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:23 pm

socoj2 wrote:For reference on this board there are 3 states of matter.. Solid Liquid and Gas.

Well, that sinks all my damned plans for making a plasma powered mini pneumatic - I'm not making this up, I've been bouncing the idea around for a while, along with a water powered cannon. Probably won't ever make a prototype like with many of my off the wall ideas (lack of funding - waiting for MrC to set up his mountainside spudgun development lair), but the principle is quite solid.

You know the thunder that accompanies lightning (common form of plasma)? That's a sonic boom from the displaced air, which means there is at least some potential for power there.
A .2g BB could be put way past the sound barrier with the concept - but with enough power, a .47g could do the same, and maybe a .12g could set the fastest velocity from any launcher on this forum, possibly over Mach 3.

If a few people are interested in the concept, I might throw down a thread in the theory section.
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Unread postAuthor: ALIHISGREAT » Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:52 pm

Ragnarok wrote:
socoj2 wrote:For reference on this board there are 3 states of matter.. Solid Liquid and Gas.

Well, that sinks all my damned plans for making a plasma powered mini pneumatic - I'm not making this up, I've been bouncing the idea around for a while, along with a water powered cannon. Probably won't ever make a prototype like with many of my off the wall ideas (lack of funding - waiting for MrC to set up his mountainside spudgun development lair), but the principle is quite solid.

You know the thunder that accompanies lightning (common form of plasma)? That's a sonic boom from the displaced air, which means there is at least some potential for power there.
A .2g BB could be put way past the sound barrier with the concept - but with enough power, a .47g could do the same, and maybe a .12g could set the fastest velocity from any launcher on this forum, possibly over Mach 3.

If a few people are interested in the concept, I might throw down a thread in the theory section.


what :? please xplain.. or are you joking? :roll:
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Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:04 pm

ALIHISGREAT wrote:what :? please xplain.. or are you joking? :roll:

Nope, no joke. With the right set up, you could use high voltages to create plasma and you could power a small launcher with that. You'd need quite an impressive capacitor bank to generate the plasma, and it wouldn't yield a massive efficiency (which is what severely limits the launcher size), but it could create velocities unknown to even hybrids.

Maybe I'll just do it so I can claim to have a phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range.
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Unread postAuthor: ALIHISGREAT » Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:10 pm

yeah being able to say you have a real working plasma rifle will make halo fans wet themsleves from excitement :D
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Unread postAuthor: DYI » Sun Dec 23, 2007 4:47 pm

If a few people are interested in the concept, I might throw down a thread in the theory section.


Do it.
I'm going to be looking for revolutionary ideas for my summer project, and that definitely falls into the category of revolutionary.
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Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Mon Dec 24, 2007 6:50 am

ALIHISGREAT wrote:yeah being able to say you have a real working plasma rifle will make halo fans wet themselves from excitement.

Well, it couldn't work like plasma rifles in films and games do, firing a mystical glowing mass of gases - for one thing, I don't have the facilities to create a complex magnetic containment field for that.

There's still a thrill for being able to show someone a working, if ghetto, version of something they thought was only something that they thought was just something a video game designer thought up.
Gauss guns are one of the more entertaining things to show people, as long as they keep their fingers clear of the high voltages.

@DYI: If I could make prototypes of half of my wacky ideas, the forum would need a whole new section for them.

The plasma ideas I have work by briefly converting air into plasma with a large electrical impulse and creating a huge spike of pressure and heat from that, which will be used to propel a conventional projectile.
As for plasma containment, I don't think that will be too heavy an issue. It should be possible to focus the plasma with an appropriate neodymium magnet to get best performance out of it.
I think if it can be sorted, I could get a .47g BB supersonic from a 2' barrel.

I'm still trying to create a spreadsheet model to work out how much electrical power would be needed, and the potential difficulties with ionised gases as well. More on that later then.
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Unread postAuthor: Erlex » Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:56 pm

This thread got a little off topic :/
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Unread postAuthor: mark.f » Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:19 am

Well... whadaya want? Several people have already answered the question. Compressed CO<sub>2</sub> in a paintball cylinder is "safe" to use in a pneumatic cannon of PVC construction as long as:

1.) A safety relief valve which has a flow greater than your regulator is installed on the pressure vessel.

2.) The tank is kept upright or an expansion chamber is used before the cannon's chamber, (much like a propane meter, except different in intent. I believe I made a thread on the old SGTC forums about one, I'll see if I can find it).

3.) You keep your P&T conditions within pipe ratings, (pressure and temperature).


If you use the latter part of #2, please realize that one slight on your part will potentially result in disaster, whether it just be having to reset a rupture disk, or having a slice of coupling give you a concussion.
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Unread postAuthor: pizlo » Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:20 am

The only thing necessary for plasma rounds is a way to produce stable plasma (funny I know) with extreme cohesion and little adhesion. Also why do people have to be so moody about things, I think getting a constant clear message across to this guy and keep him safe is more important than your petty arguments :roll: If your not sure about something state that in your post and wait for a more experienced person to correct or confirm your assumptions. giving mixed messages is almost as bad as saying the wrong thing.
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