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Blowback Hammervalve Handgun

Post questions and info about pneumatic (compressed gas) powered cannons here. This includes discussion about valves, pipe types, compressors, alternate gas setups, and anything else relevant.
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Blowback Hammervalve Handgun

Unread postAuthor: Tsukiten » Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:28 pm

Blowback Hammervalve, Handgun style Hehe :D So when I first saw Ant's hammer-valve gun I became instantly very exited about it (since I suck at pistons) and started to think of the possibilities. I've seen a number of other idea's of other people, which the moving of the hammer occurs inside the gun...but with it on the outside, you can build a very realistic, high-efficient, small handgun with blowback feature :twisted: I started drooling of the first thought of it but wanted to make an animation first.
The result can be seen in the attachment below


EDIT: After reading your posts, I started to realize that the efficienty or power or whatever of it wouldn't be that great. But I had alot of doubts about it from the very start anyway. Also I hesitated about the slide being way too heavy to act as a decent hammer. I'm going to re-design it and make a real blowback of it (air pushing the slide back this time) and perhaps including the tank in the magazine.
But to tell the truth it really doesn't seem too complex to me, I kept in mind that I only have limited/simple parts available and this is what should be possible with limited/simple parts.

*Redesigning*
Coming up: A real blowback without all the excessive things and maximum efficienty... :roll:
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Attachments
Full Animation Blowback Hammer Valve.gif
(possible it is a bit cropped, so click on it :D ) Here you see the airtank is pretty much acting as the hammer now, and is seen moving on the outside, the spring on the back pushes the whole thing backward. (note: trigger is not animated)
Last edited by Tsukiten on Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Unread postAuthor: Mr. Beaver » Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:54 pm

nice thing but how does it go back after each shot?
maybe i haven't got it right:
theres the top spring with is pushed tight and when you push the trigger, the spring get free and everything is pushed back.
now what makes it come forward again??
please if i'm being an ignorant don't 'flame the noob"...
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Unread postAuthor: Tsukiten » Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:56 pm

Mr. Beaver wrote:nice thing but how does it go back after each shot?
maybe i haven't got it right:
theres the top spring with is pushed tight and when you push the trigger, the spring get free and everything is pushed back.
now what makes it come forward again??
please if i'm being an ignorant don't 'flame the noob"...


The trapped pressurized air, where the pin is located. The pressure should be stronger than the spring and pushes it forward.
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Unread postAuthor: Hawkeye » Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:14 pm

If you suck at pistons, what makes you think you can build that?
Technically it is not actually blowing back. The spring is doing that. It's blowing forward.
It may be tricky getting all the parts to make it and it will need high pressure to make it worthwhile.
It looks rather like a portion of the paintball animation included in one of Ant's posts.
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Unread postAuthor: Tsukiten » Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:16 pm

Hawkeye wrote:If you suck at pistons, what makes you think you can build that?
Technically it is not actually blowing back. The spring is doing that. It's blowing forward.
It may be tricky getting all the parts to make it and it will need high pressure to make it worthwhile.
It looks rather like a portion of the paintball animation included in one of Ant's posts.


Well I don't actually 'suck' at pistons, but it's the lack of parts available to me...I have a hard time finding a decent pilot valve (no blowguns available here)

But the parts used in this are actually mostly un-modified and easily available.
All the pipes: chopper 15mm, chopper 12mm, bb barrel 6mm, and the slide can be made from pretty much anything.
Some elbow's/tee's, o-rings and a schrader... the mag and checkvalve indeed are a bit tricky but it should be fine.
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Last edited by Tsukiten on Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:24 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Unread postAuthor: singularity » Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:19 pm

this is awesome
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be sure to check out my <a href="http://www.spudfiles.com/forums/ak-style-airsoft-vortex-gun-t10959.html">AK Styled Vortex Gun</a> and my <a href="http://www.spudfiles.com/forums/at-4-t9627.html">AT-4 Rocket</a>

upcoming projects... finalized clip fed BBMG and ball point pen sniper
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Unread postAuthor: ALIHISGREAT » Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:36 pm

oooh it looks like a cool design, but i wouldn't like to attempt it, it looks too difficult for me :lol:
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Unread postAuthor: MaxuS » Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:43 pm

I think it's a great idea, I hope it works well.
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Unread postAuthor: BigJon » Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:45 pm

Interesting design, it looks doable but i don't how well it will perform. And i've never seen a gun where the entire chamber and barrel moved to operate it. I have one question though, why don't you just use a "two tube" or "stacked tube" blow back? it's kind of the same concept and has already been proven to work.
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Unread postAuthor: Brian the brain » Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:05 pm

It will need to run on pressures of 800 psi and above to make it worth the effort and then a spudgun would still outperform it.

Google the "drulov rada" pistol and see what I mean.
It's a factory made 9mm airpistol running on a 12 gram.

It's not even that powerful eventhough it wastes a 12 gram in 12 shots!
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Gun Freak wrote:
Oh my friggin god stop being so awesome, that thing is pure kick ass. Most innovative and creative pneumatic that the files have ever come by!

Can't ask for a better compliment!!
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Unread postAuthor: Antonio » Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:33 pm

BigJon wrote:Interesting design, it looks doable but i don't how well it will perform. And i've never seen a gun where the entire chamber and barrel moved to operate it. I have one question though, why don't you just use a "two tube" or "stacked tube" blow back? it's kind of the same concept and has already been proven to work.


I think Jon has a good point here. I have experienced that when the hammer is really heavy the dwell time(time that the valve is open) is really long. This doesnt make the gun more efficient in air. But yeah I like ur idea
Tsukiten wrote:
bc it all works like as it is shown on the gif. Btw how much time did u spend on that gif? My program is really crappy and it takes so long and so much patience to make a gif.
Btw I am really curious to c this gun come life! I think it will be pretty hard though with all the moving parts and seals that need to be done. I think this is easier than a cyringe working automag. Automags have more seals, in our case where ppl dont have milling machines it is very hard to get a perfect seal which still gives freedom of movement.
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:33 pm

Looks like it would work, but I agree with the above that it might be too complex - also, you have too many major parts moving that would be better fixed, plus that tiny chamber isn't going to last, even at higher pressure.
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Unread postAuthor: Tsukiten » Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:45 pm

Understood, thanks for the feedback.
I'm re-designing it now :roll:

(note: Edited first post as well)
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