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Burst Disk Grenade/Mine

Post questions and info about pneumatic (compressed gas) powered cannons here. This includes discussion about valves, pipe types, compressors, alternate gas setups, and anything else relevant.
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Do you think it will work?

Yes- I don't see any problems with the design
0
No votes
Yes- I see a few problems but it could work.
4
80%
No- Too many issues with the design.
1
20%
 
Total votes : 5
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Burst Disk Grenade/Mine

Unread postAuthor: Davidvaini » Sun Mar 09, 2008 2:13 am

I thought of a really simple way to incorporate a burst disk for use of a grenade or landmine. Not really sure if anyone thought of this but its new to me and I'm really excited if this works...

My idea is to have a expansion chamber that is filled with a shreader valve that has a burst disk held in with a coupling. A free moving cap would go on top of the burst disk and would hold the bb's/powder. Inside the cap would be a permanent nail or some sort of sharp object to pierce the burst disk when the whole "grenade" is agitated.(when it hits the ground) To make sure that the grenade doesn't prematurely get agitated when you are carrying it a saftey pin would be located on the cap.

The cap would be held on by String or maybe a rubber band so that when the grenade fires the cap doesn't come flying off and kill somebody. Since it would be held by string or rubber band it would partially open and the bb's/powder would obviously follow the air out the sides.

To better show what I am talking about I drew up a little model to show my idea. Hopefully tomorrow I can build a quick prototype to see if this will work.

Image
Image
Image

Note: The string that keeps the cap on isn't shown in the pictures.

If this prototype works then you could attach a wire to the pin and make a tripwire mine, add some paper, kleenex or whatever in between the cap and the coupling to add more friction for a grenade or even drill holes on the top of the cap and fill with powder for a step on landmine.


So what do you guys think?
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Unread postAuthor: Hubb » Sun Mar 09, 2008 2:22 am

It would work, provided you can get the burst disk to seal. I just wouldn't want to step on it, as the cap will go flying at me, which will hit me in the face and knock out a tooth, which will make me bleed, which will piss me off, which will....well you get the message.

Find a way to activate it so that the cap does not fly off and you've got you something.
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Unread postAuthor: Davidvaini » Sun Mar 09, 2008 2:37 am

if you read my post I already have a way... its just not shown in the pictures.
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Unread postAuthor: MrCrowley » Sun Mar 09, 2008 2:46 am

The cap would be held on by String or maybe a rubber band so that when the grenade fires the cap doesn't come flying off and kill somebody. Since it would be held by string or rubber band it would partially open and the bb's/powder would obviously follow the air out the sides.
:roll:


:)
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Unread postAuthor: Hubb » Sun Mar 09, 2008 2:51 am

I seen that the second time I read it (although there are doubts if I read it the first time :shock: )

In that case, the only problem I see with it is the fact that the pellets will not go straight up, which may not be an issue.

If it is an issue, you may can do something like this, only modified.

Also, have you seen the air delay mine? It may be of interest to you.
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Unread postAuthor: Davidvaini » Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:57 am

Well I was thinking about how the bb's wouldnt go straight up and I could modify it so they shoot up but I kinda want the bb's to go out the sides everywhere...


The air delay is cool but I guess I'm looking for a really easy way to make really cheap grenades that I could toss without problems and would still fire without problems.

If you think about my design there are only a few parts:

(1) 2" cap
(1) 1.5" Cap
(1) 1.5" coupling
(1) 1.5" pvc pipe that are 1-2" long
(1) Nail
(1) Shreader Valve
(1) Sheet of aluminum foil
(1) Safety Pin

All together my prototype that I will build tomorrow will cost me about $5 American.
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Unread postAuthor: ghostman01 » Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:13 am

not a bad design you would hoope that when you threw it it would land on the top of it so it goes off lol, or it turn out be a dud if it lands on the bottom and doesnt do anything lol... watch out hes throwing it back run!!! lol
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Unread postAuthor: psycix » Sun Mar 09, 2008 10:34 am

Maybe you should do something like this:
Image
(drew it very quickly)

The top burst disk actually holds the pressure and the second one is just there to hold the ammo in.
When the spike is pushed down, the top burst disk breaks and releases some pressure, causing the second burst disk (wich is way thinner) to break too.
This bursts out all of the ammo (wich can also be liquid paint when its for paintball)

The good thing from this design is that there is no cap in the way.
The bottom burst disk can also just be a net or something to hold ammo but no pressure.
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Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:09 am

Biggest problem I see is that if it's triggered by someone standing on it, it won't go off because the cap will be held down by their weight, then the pressure will just leak away.

If there is sufficient force to actually overcome their weight, then you're now going to push them over, which might well be dangerous.

A weight activated mine is fine for a lethal device, but for something that's meant to be used in airsoft or paintballing, it's not a suitable idea.
It's also a bit unfair to design a device to fire stuff at high speed into someone's crotch.

Not that you couldn't adapt these concepts for something more suitable, but it needs more work.
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Unread postAuthor: Carlman » Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:48 am

what if the trigger was on the path of the victem and the 'gun/grenade' was directly above the trigger in a tree lets say or pointing in that direction.

then when stepped on they get showered in bb goodness :D
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Unread postAuthor: Davidvaini » Sun Mar 09, 2008 2:41 pm

well if I was to make the mine on the ground it would have holds on the top cap so that It would still shoot up....

Also it doesnt have to it the bottom side... even if it hits the top side it will still burst. In face there is only about a 15degree room of error.
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Unread postAuthor: psycix » Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:10 pm

Ragnarok wrote:It's also a bit unfair to design a device to fire stuff at high speed into someone's crotch.


True..
It would be better if it fired from the side.
What about this:
A small "gun", mounted behind a tree with a tripwire to trigger it.
Would make a better mine I think.
Also, a wire has a higher chance to go off then a "button".

Place it at a crucial point (like a bunker entrance) on paintball games.
If they dont note the wire (wich may be small in combat situations), the chance that its BOOM is very very high.
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Unread postAuthor: judgment_arms » Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:56 pm

I agree with Ragnarok, pressure mines just don’t work in less lethal applications like paintball.

Psycix is on the right track.

What works best are “off-rout mines”. Off-rout mines are safer than pressure mines because there’s less chance of the Johnny that trips it being at point blank and being seriously injured.
Another, slightly safer, method is what’s known as a “swivel gun” or “bush master”, or nowadays a “turret”, were you have a gun you set up “off-rout” with a trip wire to shoot it.

Both the bush master and the off-rout mine still have the “range ignorance” problem which can result in someone being shot at point blank, if that happens with the bush master it’ll only be one to three round(s), but with an off-rout mine it could be upwards of thirty.

NOTE: I’m talking paintball here; airsoft would undoubtedly be more rounds per shot, particularly in an off-rout mine

The biggest problem with mines is setting them up; you have to find a high traffic area that will only be used by the OP. FOR. (opposing force) other wise you run the risk of friendlies tripping your mines.
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Unread postAuthor: STHORNE » Sun Mar 09, 2008 5:57 pm

very nice design.

simple and plausible... I love it! I might just have to try that myself

keep up the good work
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Unread postAuthor: Davidvaini » Sun Mar 09, 2008 8:26 pm

Where we play airsoft there are 2 main high traffic paths and 1 not so high traffic path. So mines are ideal for the kinda matches we play.


I worked on my prototype earlier today and immortal worked on his prototype (we compete against each other then come together)

I figured out a way to not only have this as a mine and a grenade... but also a grenade launcher. So all together this design can be used as the following:

1. Grenade
2. Step on Land mine
3. Trip wire mine
4. Grenade Launcher

All of these would use the same base but the top piece would be removable for more of a modular support.



The grenade launcher version is drying right now and I will hopefully have a video up tomorrow.
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