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full auto bolt-valve combo design

Post questions and info about pneumatic (compressed gas) powered cannons here. This includes discussion about valves, pipe types, compressors, alternate gas setups, and anything else relevant.
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Unread postAuthor: iknowmy3tables » Tue Apr 08, 2008 2:51 pm

its very different from that, that is for the ion, it's only semi automatic unless the pilot valve is electrically triggered rapidly, that is designed to be a simple piston valve bolt comb that can use a 3way valve. the green is the pilot in the animation but in mine that is an air spring

@ant: yes it could be smaller but with larger volume the tension of the air spring doesn't exponentially increase as fast, and their is only one schrader, that schrader is there for manual filling in case I later want to detach the feed or mess up on the pressure reducer I can instead do it manually, and if the pressure goes down you see the pressure reducer lacks any method of venting so I can just poke the schrader

@jack maybe so, but I can always just choose a higher pressure difference, 20psi should be fine right, btw thanks for the animation
but do you think it could be safe enough for a sealing face instead of the larger plug :idea: I just got an idea

EDIT: thought of a little revision stuff so I altered the diagram
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Unread postAuthor: Antonio » Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:28 am

The ion:
Image

Yeah it should be able to work, you just need a solenoid or something that will do the job mechanically.
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Unread postAuthor: iknowmy3tables » Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:50 am

solinoid? why? its not like the ion, it can work with a simple open/close 2way valve which is so much simpeler
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Unread postAuthor: Flash » Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:23 pm

Oh I get it now. When it fires the pressure in the fining chamber drops to the point where the air spring can return the bolt to its original position. Then the cycle repeats. What I don't get is how the check valve lowers the input pressure.

Overall, looks good!
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Unread postAuthor: iknowmy3tables » Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:52 pm

yeah I think you got it, the check valve in this has a high tension on the spring, the force of the spring cancels out some of the presure, think of it this way on one side it has the force from the input presure on the other side it has the force of the spring and the holding presure to push it closed, so the spring helps the thing close without a presure equalibrium thats about as best as I can explain it for now
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Unread postAuthor: socoj2 » Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:26 pm

So you have a mechanical Ion... <shrug>
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Unread postAuthor: iknowmy3tables » Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:21 pm

no I have a fully automatic version in the format of blowforward bolt/piston that has a semiautomatic equivalent in the ion's design, it's not piloted, ion based designs are like this
ion and direct ion derived designs=one bang per a pilot acuation
my design= air goes in and full rapid fire

anyways the other design posted hear just reminded me of another possible way to make a full auto
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Unread postAuthor: socoj2 » Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:35 pm

/Edit. Ok i see how you are reseting the Bolt...

But where is the Air that Resets the bolt going to go? If the pressure is equal to whats behind the bolt it isnt going to move.
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Unread postAuthor: iknowmy3tables » Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:12 pm

socoj2 wrote:/Edit. Ok i see how you are reseting the Bolt...

But where is the Air that Resets the bolt going to go? If the pressure is equal to whats behind the bolt it isn"t going to move.

your talking about the last diagram right, well the hope is that after the pressure is dumped during the shot the springs will reset the bolt before much pressure can get behind the thing, :idea: or I could narrow the base of the rod on the back so that pressure will bleed off when fully reset
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Unread postAuthor: iknowmy3tables » Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:00 pm

okay sorry about the double post but I really need some advice on choosing a design, the most recent does allow for larger surface areas than the bolt's max surface area so the should have more power right?
the other ones are fairly simply and may be easier to make using the air spring, and the one with the sealing face, its kinda inaccurate with the diameter in the diagram, but the spring tension won't slow the acceleration as much due to pressure drop on both side being dumped

I'm not sure which to try building
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Unread postAuthor: Hailfire753 » Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:22 pm

Wow, it took me a little while to figure out how it worked, but this actually looks pretty good. That Ion animation was also helpful. It should work fine, and I might even use it in a paintball gun.
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Unread postAuthor: judgment_arms » Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:24 pm

iknowmy3tables wrote:...I'm not sure which to try building

I know the feelin’…


go with the simplest design, “all that is complex is not useful, all that is useful is simple” –Mikhail Kalashnikov.
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