Login    Register
User Information
Username:
Password:
We are a free and open
community, all are welcome.
Click here to Register
Sponsored
Who is online

In total there are 64 users online :: 5 registered, 1 hidden and 58 guests


Most users ever online was 155 on Mon Aug 15, 2016 1:40 am

Registered users: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], MSNbot Media, Yahoo [Bot] based on users active over the past 5 minutes

The Team
Administrators
Global Moderators
global_moderators.png CS

'Different' air release valve (hammer/poppet style)

Post questions and info about pneumatic (compressed gas) powered cannons here. This includes discussion about valves, pipe types, compressors, alternate gas setups, and anything else relevant.
Sponsored 
  • Author
    Message

'Different' air release valve (hammer/poppet style)

Unread postAuthor: hotknife ralphie » Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:17 am

Good evening to all, I found this today whilst bumming around and thought it was rather nifty. (For those who don't want to read my nonsense the link can be found underneath my disclaimers and such.)

Firstly, I don't think this has been posted before, if it has I do apologize in advance. (For all I know this probably has been done already in one of ants' or someone elses guns, I didn't entirely understand how they all worked though)

Secondly, this isn't my creation nor do I know the person who did do it, so I'm not trying to spamvertise or anything of that nature. (my goodness my grammar is bad)

And at lastly, I'm not sure if this belongs in the pneumatic section, it is air orientated, however because of its small scale it may well belong in the bb airsofty section, I figure it could be scaled up though...maybe...

Finally, if you read through my more than likely pointless disclaimers here's the link:

http://www.instructables.com/id/Airgun- ... ase-Valve/

I came off sounding kinda douchy didn't I? Damn, I always do.
  • 0


hotknife ralphie
Private First Class
Private First Class
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 5:53 am
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: Antonio » Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:28 am

Hey man be a bit more confident!:) In presentation or whatever its not good to talk about the things you are bad at or are missing out. If you dont talk about your weaknesses"" then nobody will notice:)

Well k, thnx for posting anyways. Looks like a nice gun> the only problem is that it is singleshot, and that it only works on a small amount of air. But 30bars from a pump is damn high! Here is a pic of the valve:

Image

It is a poppet type of valve, where the barrel is the valve and has holes at the side so the air can pass through it. I have made these valves as well, but the problem is that the holes have to be as far back as possible, otherwise you loose power bc the air leakes beside the barrel.
  • 0

User avatar
Antonio
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 508
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2006 2:38 pm
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: sniper hero » Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:35 am

I don't know if it's already on the forum but I like the idea of a homemade inline valve I am planning on makeing a replica of the condor and I can't get a cheap sprinkler over here
ant what is small ? you can make a bigger valve with this pricipe right?
  • 0

Attachments
condor.jpg
condor
Last edited by sniper hero on Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
proud member of dutch spud clan
coming: semi auto pellet sniper:D
User avatar
sniper hero
Captain
Captain
 
Posts: 332
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 3:12 pm
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:36 am

Forget amateurish sprinkler valves. Look no further than this type of valve for making airguns or anything where you need the air released explosively. This is my own design inspired by the valve inside an airbrush.


In truth, exhaust valves (pistons, sprinklers, QEVs etc.) are much more efficient and easier to make and use than poppet valves, if you're going for a high powered single shot. Their major advantage (and the reason that they're used in practically all commercial pneumatic airguns) is that they release a limited amount of air from a pressurised vessel, meaning that they're more practical for getting multiple shots from a single chamber.
  • 0

User avatar
jackssmirkingrevenge
Donating Member
Donating Member
 
Posts: 24225
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:28 pm
Country: Holy See (Vatican City State) (va)
Reputation: 66

Re: 'Different' air release valve (hammer/poppet style)

Unread postAuthor: starman » Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:53 am

hotknife ralphie wrote:....I came off sounding kinda douchy didn't I? Damn, I always do.


Not at all, I thought you were well prepared and clearly presented your ideas. The only thing I noticed was your speaking pace was slightly fast, otherwise it was fine.

Most people freak out when they hear themselves speak, especially the first few times. The more you do it, the better you'll get at it and the more comfortable you'll be.

Nice job!
  • 0

User avatar
starman
Donating Moderator
Donating Moderator
 
Posts: 3041
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:45 am
Location: Simpsonville, SC
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: flamerz14 » Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:53 am

I've seen these before at instructables.. I wonder if it could be used for a 25mm coaxial? Apparently it says it releases vast amounts of air quickly, could it compensate for its small size?
  • 0

well, this isn't much isn't it?

flamerz14
Captain
Captain
 
Posts: 322
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:02 pm
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:57 am

flamerz14 wrote:I've seen these before at instructables.. I wonder if it could be used for a 25mm coaxial? Apparently it says it releases vast amounts of air quickly, could it compensate for its small size?


Considering a 25mm barrel, for a poppet valve to give as much flow as a coaxial piston valve it would have to be massive and be actuated by a correspondingly enormous hammer and spring. If you're using high pressures like most precharged airguns do, in the region of 3,500 psi, then the increased pressure compensates for the lack of flow. However, with spudguns we're typically working with less than 10% of that pressure, meaning efficient high-flow valves are essential for good performance as well as managable construction.

You might consider it as a pilot valve for your piston if the pilot volume is small enough - for example, if I were to put a hammer that strikes the schrader valve stem on my mini pistons - but certainly not as the main valve for anything bigger than airsoft calibre.
  • 0

User avatar
jackssmirkingrevenge
Donating Member
Donating Member
 
Posts: 24225
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:28 pm
Country: Holy See (Vatican City State) (va)
Reputation: 66

Sponsored

Sponsor
 


Unread postAuthor: TurboSuper » Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:02 am

It's a shame these valves are difficult to scale up. The thing always holding me back from building a "mini" pneumatic cannon is the fact that I could just buy one for $50.

Then again, mabye if you're handy with copper tubing, you could make a bigger one.
  • 0

Last edited by TurboSuper on Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
"If at first you dont succeed, then skydiving is not for you" - Darwin Awards

TurboSuper
Brigadier General
Brigadier General
 
Posts: 986
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:44 pm
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: flamerz14 » Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:03 am

Hmm...i'll take that as a no then :lol: but what do you mean by
if I were to put a hammer that strikes the schrader valve stem
?
  • 0

well, this isn't much isn't it?

flamerz14
Captain
Captain
 
Posts: 322
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:02 pm
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: flamerz14 » Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:06 am

TurboSuper wrote:It's a shame these valves are difficult to scale up. The thing always holding me back from building a "mini" pneumatic cannon is the fact that I could just buy one for $50.


Why buy when you can build? :wink:
  • 0

well, this isn't much isn't it?

flamerz14
Captain
Captain
 
Posts: 322
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:02 pm
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:04 am

flamerz14 wrote:what do you mean by

if I were to put a hammer that strikes the schrader valve stem
?


Something like the attached diagram, pull the trigger which releases the spring loaded hammer, that strikes the schrader allowing the air to escape thus piloting the piston - et voila, hammer valve pilot :)
  • 0

Attachments
Untitled.jpg
Untitled.jpg (19.89 KiB) Viewed 2749 times
User avatar
jackssmirkingrevenge
Donating Member
Donating Member
 
Posts: 24225
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:28 pm
Country: Holy See (Vatican City State) (va)
Reputation: 66

Unread postAuthor: Antonio » Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:37 am

jackssmirkingrevenge wrote:
Forget amateurish sprinkler valves. Look no further than this type of valve for making airguns or anything where you need the air released explosively. This is my own design inspired by the valve inside an airbrush.


In truth, exhaust valves (pistons, sprinklers, QEVs etc.) are much more efficient and easier to make and use than poppet valves, if you're going for a high powered single shot. Their major advantage (and the reason that they're used in practically all commercial pneumatic airguns) is that they release a limited amount of air from a pressurised vessel, meaning that they're more practical for getting multiple shots from a single chamber.


why do half of the paintball markers on the market still use the poppet idea then? I do admit that the ion eg. is more efficient but it also needs higher'' technology(solenoids) and tight fits to be machined. My input is that if you want to build a multiple shot bb gun that shoots max 400fps and works on 8 bar (0.5liter> 95 shots) use a poppet valve with a moving barrel. For single shot and bigger bore use a piston> and yes for higher pressures it is harder to open a poppet valve, but there is a patent for that, ill look it up> it uses a pin that is attached to the back of the valve that is connected to a piston at the otherside(with a spring at the back) like this the hammer only has to overcome the spring and not the air as its equalized''.
  • 0

User avatar
Antonio
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 508
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2006 2:38 pm
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:40 am

ant wrote:why do half of the paintball markers on the market still use the poppet idea then?


jackssmirkingrevenge wrote:Their major advantage (and the reason that they're used in practically all commercial pneumatic airguns) is that they release a limited amount of air from a pressurised vessel, meaning that they're more practical for getting multiple shots from a single chamber.
  • 0

User avatar
jackssmirkingrevenge
Donating Member
Donating Member
 
Posts: 24225
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:28 pm
Country: Holy See (Vatican City State) (va)
Reputation: 66

Unread postAuthor: Antonio » Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:44 am

jackssmirkingrevenge wrote:
ant wrote:why do half of the paintball markers on the market still use the poppet idea then?


jackssmirkingrevenge wrote:In truth, exhaust valves (pistons, sprinklers, QEVs etc.) are much more efficient and easier to make and use than poppet valves, if you're going for a high powered single shot. Their major advantage (and the reason that they're used in practically all commercial pneumatic airguns) is that they release a limited amount of air from a pressurised vessel, meaning that they're more practical for getting multiple shots from a single chamber..


I did read that lol, I thought u were referring to the pisons and QEVs. I didnt get that by "Their" you meant the poppet valves lol. But k coola
  • 0

User avatar
Antonio
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 508
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2006 2:38 pm
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: nivekatoz » Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:49 am

This valve I think works on the same idea, only with more volume. Its 1/2" npt. when you press down the lever a piston type thing opens just like the valve in the video..
  • 0

Attachments
IMG_2213.JPG
IMG_2213.JPG (32.76 KiB) Viewed 2732 times
IMG_2214.JPG

nivekatoz
2nd Lieutenant
2nd Lieutenant
 
Posts: 237
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:05 pm
Reputation: 0

Next

Return to Pneumatic Cannon Discussion

Who is online

Registered users: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], MSNbot Media, Yahoo [Bot]

Reputation System ©'