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Post questions and info about pneumatic (compressed gas) powered cannons here. This includes discussion about valves, pipe types, compressors, alternate gas setups, and anything else relevant.
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Unread postAuthor: john bunsenburner » Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:21 am

Ok I am afraifd people here are not quite aware odf swiss prices... A compressor is around 1000$ here that is a 8bar one so about 120psi. Getting an old fridge would get me jailed up due to the fact that it is illigal to take things from dumps here. Using the soda club tank would work pretty well i noticed that there is a tube which has like a scewy thing at the end, i cant screa that to my chamber and then press the button to blow co2 into my chamber. A bulk tank at 30L and 3k psi is only 30$, 20 once i brought back the tank...So tell me what you think and ask me if you have questions or need more details to help me, oh and no offence but how anti siphons work doesnt really help me, becuase i know it already and i will not wander around with a CO2 tank unless i am seriously high or drunk, in other words: PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC I NEED AN ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION!!!
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Unread postAuthor: D_Hall » Sat Nov 29, 2008 12:51 pm

spudkilla wrote:The anti siphon only works when the tank is horizontal and facing a certain angle.


Image

Only true if your anti-siphon tube was installed by an idiot.

Hint: CO2 is roughly twice as dense as water. A *FULL* CO2 tank is less than half full of liquid CO2. Result? As long as your anti-siphon tube goes to the center of your bottle, it will work, period.

And yes, I have a dozen or so of 'em in my garage as we speak. When I was young and spry I too was a paintballer. That's what got me into this little hobby. I *tried* to educate the masses. Too much testerone and too many idiots. They'd do the math but forget that CO2 is denser than water. Blah blah blah....

Here's what your picture SHOULD look like:
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Unread postAuthor: john bunsenburner » Sat Nov 29, 2008 12:58 pm

An anti siphon tube is meant to give you only liquid CO2, like used in fire extingishers to add as much CO2 to the fire as possible in order to "choke" the fire.([For refrence!]Standard CO2 cylinders come in two types. Gas and Siphon. Gas cylinders stand upright and releases gas from the evaporation liquid when the valve is opened - this type of cylinder must be turned upside down in order to obtain liquid CO2. Siphon cylinders have a tube from the valve to the bottom of the cylinder so that when the valve is opened liquid CO2 comes out without
needing to invert the bottle. Fire extinguishers are of the Siphon type and Bar/Pub Beer Gas Cylinders are of the Gas type.http://soadahclub.vox.com/) But it does not help me, i want to know what source of compressed cas i should use, i am really in need of an answer, just stay on topic until i have an answer then do what you want... So again: which of the following is cheepest, safest and most powerful?:

1. Soda club tank with regulator to fill the chamber
2.CO2 cylinders for bikes
3.N2O cylinders used for wipped cream
4.A Bulk tank with pressurized air
5.A hand pump
6. An air compressor with an output of atleast 300psi
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Unread postAuthor: Gippeto » Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:03 pm

Go with the hand pump, as it sounds as though that is what is actually in your budget.

Or build a stirrup pump.
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Unread postAuthor: D_Hall » Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:06 pm

john bunsenburner wrote:An anti siphon tube is meant to give you only liquid CO2,

No, that is a siphon tube. Siphon tube. Anti-siphon tube. They are exact opposites. One is designed to get nothing but liquid (the siphon tube). One is designed to get nothing but gas (the anti-siphon tube).

As for your question, it doesn't fracking matter. Whatever is cheapest/easiest for YOU is what will work the best. You've already stated that your economies are totally different than ours due to pricing/laws and such in your home country. Result? This is a question only YOU can answer (or somebody who's as intimately familiar with your situation as you are).
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Unread postAuthor: john bunsenburner » Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:10 pm

Oops sorry for my mistake, all i really need to knwo what you would choose due to the fact that YOU have the experience and i dont. I can always choose after but surely people here know more than me, all i ask is to give your oppinion, maybe i did not state that in a manner which was understood, so sorry for that.
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Unread postAuthor: D_Hall » Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:27 pm

*I* would personally go with "any of the above." IE, whatever is cheapest and most convenient at the time. The gun will use ANY of them, will it not? So why limit yourself?

For my own guns I use MULTIPLE sources.

- An air compressor in my garage.
- A bulk CO2 tank (50 lbs) in my garage.
- Small paintball CO2 tanks (24 oz).

Which one I use depends on what I'm trying to do and why. Any given gun may be used with all three.
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Unread postAuthor: john bunsenburner » Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:40 pm

So i could have like a multi power gun(thats the reply i needed). Ok so from the three things you listed which is best for what. And how much was the compressor and where did you get it. Waht is better Bulk CO2 or Bulk compressed air. I see N2O is no good nor are CO2 cartidges atleast for my purposses. Oh and is there a way to limit the flow on a bulk tank with no regulator, i might be able to fill the soda club tank with Compressed air making the whole matter ALOT cheeper. What do you all think?
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Unread postAuthor: frankrede » Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:40 pm

I would go with a bulk nitrogen tank, more pressure, more power(less dense gas).
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Unread postAuthor: D_Hall » Sat Nov 29, 2008 3:52 pm

john bunsenburner wrote:Ok so from the three things you listed which is best for what.


Air compressor: Best for repeated use at home.
Bulk CO2 tank: Best for the "single shot" at home.
Small CO2 tank: Best for taking other places; it's portable.

And how much was the compressor and where did you get it.

I don't know. Maybe $150 at Wal-Mart for a 5 HP model? Couldn't tell you for sure as that was several years ago and the cost of an air compressor is in the noise.

Waht is better Bulk CO2 or Bulk compressed air.

Yes.

They each have their advantages. What EXACTLY do you want them to do? Which would be better for you depends on your answer to that question.


Oh and is there a way to limit the flow on a bulk tank with no regulator

No, there isn't. And only a damned fool would try.
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Unread postAuthor: MrCrowley » Sat Nov 29, 2008 4:07 pm

Bulk CO2 and Nitrogen tanks are going to cost you a lot of money I would imagine.

You probably will rent the tank for a few months or year, whatever the best option is for you. This will come with the regulator, but when the tank is emtpy, you have to pay to get it filled up again.

This requires being able to move around a 30kg+ tank (depends how big you go).

A small CO2 or nitrogen tank is pretty useful, it's portable high pressure.

Downsides are;

If you have a large chamber, you'll go through the CO2 pretty quick
You need to buy a regulator
You need to get them filled up everynow and then


Air compressors are good because they provide their own compressed gas (air).

Downsides are;

Big and heavy (~10kg)
Limited to under 150psi in most cases
Requires a decent sized tank to be able to fire multiple shots (I'd recommend at least a 21litre or 5gallon tank).


So you're from Switzerland? If a compressor costs $1000 (euro?), all the other options are probably just as expensive. I really fail to see a normal compressor costing so much. Do they look like this?
Image

Of course it's illegal to dumpster dive at a city council dump, just don't get caught. :wink:
I'm serious. Or just wait till your fridge craps out or something :P

A bulk tank at 30L and 3k psi is only 30$

Ah ok. Well that seems pretty obvious like it's the best option. Go with that.
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Unread postAuthor: rp181 » Sat Nov 29, 2008 4:09 pm

No, there isn't. And only a damned fool would try.


McMaster, catalog page 471. Flow control, up to 2000psi.

Keep in mind flow regulator's only limit flow, not pressure, so it is still unsafe.

Compressed air is better at the same pressure, But Co2 is easier to get in higher pressure's. So it all depends.

Also, any source can be multi power, just vary the pressure.
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Unread postAuthor: john bunsenburner » Sat Nov 29, 2008 4:12 pm

Ok what i want to do is to do target practise in my garden, so I will need something that will last for a long time is relatively cheep and inexpensive. I will try to go for accuracy over long distances so i also need power. I want to keep the price under 200$ if possible. If a compressor will last for a long time and will have an out put of atleast 300psi then i am happy to pay a little more but if s compressor will die after three years or be incredibly expensive or weak then i will not bother. I will be thankful for any links to websites that sell compressors. Bulk air tanks are an alternative but i doubt they last too long. The CO2 bulk tank is too expensive. Using Soda club will only be ok when i go shooting in the field next door. So the question is really should i get a compressor or not, should i go find a fridge or should i get an old car engine and make a piston compressor. Maybe a shock pump would be all i need for my purpose What i really need now is to know what people would answer to the questions asked above and what people use them selves(that is if i did not metion the power source you use yet.) I am waiting for advice, thank you ahead.


EDIT: Yes the compressors i am talking about look like that, and yes they are all damn expensive and all too weak for me(if a compressor produced 50bar and not 8 i would maybe even pay...) I am unsure wether i need a license for owning a bulk tank or not, the school i go to hates when i pretend to represent their science department i do not know why...Dumpsters are very difficult here, they will ahve anything useful locked up but there is a huge private dump which would theoretically let me take stuff btu those 50meter high stacks of cars are somewhat scary and the air is definately really bad for me... I could maybe get a fridge from there though...And a car engine too... Any how i am waiting for comments...
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Unread postAuthor: MrCrowley » Sat Nov 29, 2008 4:19 pm

john bunsenburner wrote:Ok what i want to do is to do target practise in my garden, so I will need something that will last for a long time is relatively cheep and inexpensive. I will try to go for accuracy over long distances so i also need power.

Well you've already said a compressor cost $1000 and bulk CO2/Nitrogen is only $30, so go for the bulk CO2/Nitrogen.

john bunsenburner wrote:I want to keep the price under 200$ if possible. If a compressor will last for a long time and will have an out put of atleast 300psi then i am happy to pay a little more but if s compressor will die after three years or be incredibly expensive or weak then i will not bother. I will be thankful for any links to websites that sell compressors.

Well you've already said a compressor cost $1000 and bulk CO2/Nitrogen is only $30, so go for the bulk CO2/Nitrogen.

john bunsenburner wrote:Bulk air tanks are an alternative but i doubt they last too long. The CO2 bulk tank is too expensive. Using Soda club will only be ok when i go shooting in the field next door. So the question is really should i get a compressor or not, should i go find a fridge or should i get an old car engine and make a piston compressor.

I thought you were making a 'sniper' or something. They'll last pretty long on a bulk CO2/Nitrogen tank. It sounds like the far cheaper option so go with that.

john bunsenburner wrote:Maybe a shock pump would be all i need for my purpose What i really need now is to know what people would answer to the questions asked above and what people use them selves(that is if i did not metion the power source you use yet.) I am waiting for advice, thank you ahead
We've already said EVERYTHING you need, several times.

I don't see how you keep ignoring our replies. Read my above post, read my first post, read this post. Read D_Hall's posts too.

Go with bulk CO2/Nitrogen because it sounds like it's the FAR cheaper option. It's obvious. We've already endorsed it, saying we'd use it and it's a good option. So buy it.


I'm not going to say anymore, because i've already said it. Read our other posts if this one doesn't answer your question. Incase you still don't understand: If bulk CO2/Nitrogen only costs $30, then go for it. That's your answer.
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Unread postAuthor: john bunsenburner » Sat Nov 29, 2008 4:35 pm

Ok thank you i was only seeignif there where any more opinions but it seems very clear what you think. I was just wondering whether or not the bulk tanks would not sum up? I mean after ten bulk tanks i can easyly order a compressor online after 39 i could definatelky buy a nice compressor locally...It is my last question and i must say that even if i have not made it very clear i am very thankful for all the replys, it shows how helpful a comunity of very good spudgunners is willing to help absolute noobs like me, i doubt that easy to find else where, sorry for the inconvinience i caused by not noticing the very one directional advice towards bulk tanks
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