Login    Register
User Information
Username:
Password:
We are a free and open
community, all are welcome.
Click here to Register
Sponsored
Who is online

In total there are 77 users online :: 4 registered, 0 hidden and 73 guests


Most users ever online was 155 on Mon Aug 15, 2016 1:40 am

Registered users: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], Yahoo [Bot] based on users active over the past 5 minutes

The Team
Administrators
Global Moderators
global_moderators.png CS

muzzle loading .50 cal

Post questions and info about pneumatic (compressed gas) powered cannons here. This includes discussion about valves, pipe types, compressors, alternate gas setups, and anything else relevant.
Sponsored 

Should I build this

Poll ended at Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:47 pm

yes
4
100%
no
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 4
  • Author
    Message

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:56 am

Not so, 20 gauge is 0.615", 12 gauge is 0.729" ;) and the rifling on the projectile itself is largely irrelevant, though it should still be stable in flight due to drag stabilisation by virtue of a forward centre of gravity.
  • 0

User avatar
jackssmirkingrevenge
Donating Member
Donating Member
 
Posts: 24225
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:28 pm
Country: Holy See (Vatican City State) (va)
Reputation: 66

Unread postAuthor: jitup » Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:24 am

oops! :oops: I wrote 20 gauge :oops:
would I still have to rifle the barrel if I used rifled rounds our can I successfully use a amooth bore such as I due in my shot gun?
  • 0

if you live in Ohio join the Ohio Spud Gun and BBMG Association at http://www.ohiosga.webs.com
User avatar
jitup
1st Lieutenant
1st Lieutenant
 
Posts: 251
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:40 pm
Location: North east Ohio
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:51 pm

jitup wrote:would I still have to rifle the barrel if I used rifled rounds our can I successfully use a amooth bore such as I due in my shot gun?


It depends on the type of slug you're using.

Image

Brenneke type slugs usually have a fibre wad or plastic tail that provides stabilisation, meaning you don't need rifling. Foster type slugs usually have a hollow baseto provide the same effect in terms of drag stabilisation.

What wouldn't work would be something like the one illustrated below, saboted slugs that are essentially similar to full bore bullets and will not stabilise adequately without being spun externally by rifling.

Image

0.22 airguns shooting at a little more than 500 feet per second can be fired accurately out to 50 yards, if you get similar velocities for such slugs you're in business :)
  • 0

User avatar
jackssmirkingrevenge
Donating Member
Donating Member
 
Posts: 24225
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:28 pm
Country: Holy See (Vatican City State) (va)
Reputation: 66

Unread postAuthor: jitup » Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:19 pm

like the remington buckhammer?
Image

do you think 1 3/4 oz is too heavy?
dose anybody know were you can buy the lead slugs such as these for reloading, I will not kill my self trying to take apart a slug shell to try and get the slug out!

I have a gamo .177 air rifle that gets about 1300 fps (chrony reading) and if there is not any wind I can make shots from 150-200 yards. If it is windy and conditions are poor it is a differents story due to how light the pellets are.
  • 0

if you live in Ohio join the Ohio Spud Gun and BBMG Association at http://www.ohiosga.webs.com
User avatar
jitup
1st Lieutenant
1st Lieutenant
 
Posts: 251
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:40 pm
Location: North east Ohio
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:39 pm

jitup wrote:and if there is not any wind I can make shots from 150-200 yards.

Sure, I can do that too. You will notice, that like you, I have not mentioned the size of the target or my hit ratio, therefore making this information useless.
My suspicion is that your target is either very sizeable, the targets are a lot closer than you think they are (typical over guessing of range), you're being conservative with the truth regarding how often you hit - or just out and out lying.

I would believe a very good FAC .22 air rifle could group at those ranges with good heavy pellets, but Gamo is not exactly the premier brand.

Also, if you're getting 1300 fps, I'm going to guess that it's a very light pellet, and given that velocity and pellet weight, I think that alone is going to mess with your accuracy during and after the pellet has going through the transonic range. Seriously, heavier pellets in the 800-900 fps range will almost certainly give better accuracy results.
  • 0

Does that thing kinda look like a big cat to you?
User avatar
Ragnarok
Chief of Staff
Chief of Staff
 
Posts: 5339
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:23 am
Location: The UK
Reputation: 8

Unread postAuthor: jitup » Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:59 pm

No, I am telling the truth. Gamo makes great guns if you don't buy them at walmart or dicks. this gun was almost $400 (birthday present from rich uncle, I asked for a BB gun) I can make a decent grouping on one of those small bulls eye targets that are meant to be shot at from 20 feet. of course they are not all in the center because it is a pellet gun after all, but it is still a pretty decent groupong. I am not over guessing the yardage. the only reason I CAN hit the target from that far is because a couple of years after I had the gun my uncle bought me a VERY nice scope. It is so nice, that when spring comes I will probably mount it on a 30 odd 6 (If I get one at the next gun show)
These results are probably not belevible to you because you are only used to the decent at best performance of the cheap gamo's. this is not an avarge bb gun. it is meant to hunt rabbit, squeril and other small animals. it is truly a rifle. not to mention that it is incredibly hard to cock the barrel, and i work out and am in good shape. I think it is a little easier to pull back than my 160 pound cross bow.
  • 0

if you live in Ohio join the Ohio Spud Gun and BBMG Association at http://www.ohiosga.webs.com
User avatar
jitup
1st Lieutenant
1st Lieutenant
 
Posts: 251
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:40 pm
Location: North east Ohio
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:17 pm

jitup wrote:I will probably mount it on a 30 odd 6


30 ought 6 ;)

What sort of accuracy do you claim at 200 yards?

Image

This was a 2 inch group at 120 yards this beast - 16 grain pellets at around 900 feet per second.

Springers, especially powerful ones, are a lot more difficult to shoot than pneumatics, in this regard some sort of proof to satisfy the sceptics amongst us would not go amiss ;)
  • 0

User avatar
jackssmirkingrevenge
Donating Member
Donating Member
 
Posts: 24225
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:28 pm
Country: Holy See (Vatican City State) (va)
Reputation: 66

Sponsored

Sponsor
 


Unread postAuthor: Gippeto » Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:21 pm

Ah hell, Ragnarok said basically everything I would have anyway. And he is right on the money.

And it's .30-06 Springfield not 30 odd 6 . :?

However, that's for another day.

You asked about slugs. Right near the top of the thread I posted there is a picture of a custom made slug mold.

It throws slugs measuring .758" in weights ranging from 550grain to 830 grain depending on the base piece I use and the casting media.(~1 1/4 oz to ~1.9oz)

A machinist that knows his/her trade should be able to crank it out in about an hour. It took me closer to two. :wink:
  • 0

"It could be that the purpose of your life is to serve as a warning to others" – unknown

Liberalism is a mental disorder, reality is it's cure.
User avatar
Gippeto
Donating Member
Donating Member
 
Posts: 2393
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:14 am
Location: The Great White North...Canada eh!
Reputation: 11

Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:28 pm

jitup wrote:No, I am telling the truth. Gamo makes great guns if you don't buy them at walmart or dicks.

I can believe they make good stuff, but what you're claiming is stuff I would only expect of top of the line FAC PCPs.
Even a very good rifle worth thousands of dollars, will struggle to better 1" groupings at 100 yards, what you're claiming is somewhat more generous than that:
I can make a decent grouping on one of those small bulls eye targets that are meant to be shot at from 20 feet.

Those targets are usually about 2" across. You're expecting me to believe that your Gamo springer is capable of shooting as well as something like the Weihrauch HW100 or the Daystate Mk 4? Those rifles are worth several times what yours is.

I am not over guessing the yardage. the only reason I CAN hit the target from that far is because a couple of years after I had the gun my uncle bought me a VERY nice scope.

Weakest link in the chain. Even a Lazer Dazer Zippo scope will not make a rifle shoot any better than it can.

These results are probably not belevible to you because you are only used to the decent at best performance of the cheap gamo's.

No, these results are not particularly believable to someone who owns a tuned example of the better examples of what is one of the world's very best commercial springers, the Air Arms TX 200 Hunter Carbine, bought for the equivalent of about $700, shooting in the tried and tested 800-900 fps accuracy range, a good brand of sorted pellets that the rifle works well with, a good quality scope he knows how to use properly, and many thousands of pellets of practise.

I have used cheap Gamos, decent and well broken in Gamos, several other springers, and own an Air Arms which is just about good enough to give a PCP a bit of a challenge - and I don't think I could reliably achieve that with even my TX, which is basically as good as springers get, except for two things: the TX 200 Semi-Recoilless, no longer in production; or a Whiscombe, rare as hen's teeth and VERY expensive. (The Weihrauch springers are more or less on a par with the Air Arms ones, I won't call one better than the other)

Basically, they're not believable to someone who although he can't call himself an expert, certainly knows what springers are capable of.

As JSR says, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
Naming the exact model of Gamo you're claiming this of would be a decent start, although far from the finish, to such a set of proof.
  • 0

Does that thing kinda look like a big cat to you?
User avatar
Ragnarok
Chief of Staff
Chief of Staff
 
Posts: 5339
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:23 am
Location: The UK
Reputation: 8

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:40 pm

I guess it's the Hunter Extreme we're talking about.

The outrageous (though probably true) velocity claims are in conjunction with the PBA raptor pellets, another gimmick which work in the same way as High Velocity Armor Piercing (or Armour Piercing Composite Rigid, depending where you're from) works - high velocity at the muzzle achieved through light weight, spectacular at point blank range, but it loses velocity rapidly and in practical terms is not very effective at realistic ranges.
  • 0

User avatar
jackssmirkingrevenge
Donating Member
Donating Member
 
Posts: 24225
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:28 pm
Country: Holy See (Vatican City State) (va)
Reputation: 66

Unread postAuthor: Gippeto » Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:55 pm

Kind of like airsoft bb's eh? :lol:
  • 0

"It could be that the purpose of your life is to serve as a warning to others" – unknown

Liberalism is a mental disorder, reality is it's cure.
User avatar
Gippeto
Donating Member
Donating Member
 
Posts: 2393
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:14 am
Location: The Great White North...Canada eh!
Reputation: 11

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:01 pm

Gippeto wrote:Kind of like airsoft bb's eh? :lol:


Kind of :)
  • 0

User avatar
jackssmirkingrevenge
Donating Member
Donating Member
 
Posts: 24225
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:28 pm
Country: Holy See (Vatican City State) (va)
Reputation: 66

Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:10 pm

jackssmirkingrevenge wrote:I guess it's the Hunter Extreme we're talking about.

Wait.. What? A 180 lb hog with 29 ft-lbs? Demonstrating that is just irresponsible - 99.9% of shooters are never going to be in a situation where that's feasible and possible for them to pull off, most likely they'll wound the poor thing.
  • 0

Does that thing kinda look like a big cat to you?
User avatar
Ragnarok
Chief of Staff
Chief of Staff
 
Posts: 5339
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:23 am
Location: The UK
Reputation: 8

Unread postAuthor: nibbler125 » Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:44 pm

i would go for it it wont be as powerful as blackpowder but it should work out
  • 0


nibbler125
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 10:42 am
Reputation: 6

Unread postAuthor: jitup » Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:01 am

ok, first off the targets I have are either 3 or 4 inches across.
I don't use the gimmick pellets. I use the ones that have the gold color plaiting over the lead.
also when It warms up, I will make a video of a couple of shots, if this will satisfy you. the conditions have to be VERY good for it to happen. no wind at all.

Back to the original post
how about my idea. Is it possible to get an effective 50 yards range to go through a 2x4?
and should I use copper or steel. I am thinking it will be a coaxil with a piston valve. Will it hold up in freezing temps?
  • 0

if you live in Ohio join the Ohio Spud Gun and BBMG Association at http://www.ohiosga.webs.com
User avatar
jitup
1st Lieutenant
1st Lieutenant
 
Posts: 251
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:40 pm
Location: North east Ohio
Reputation: 0

PreviousNext

Return to Pneumatic Cannon Discussion

Who is online

Registered users: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], Yahoo [Bot]

Reputation System ©'