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My plans

Post questions and info about pneumatic (compressed gas) powered cannons here. This includes discussion about valves, pipe types, compressors, alternate gas setups, and anything else relevant.
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My plans

Unread postAuthor: john bunsenburner » Fri Dec 12, 2008 4:02 pm

I drew a little diagram of how i imagined my first gun. There are three different barrels, one for the use with my self cast pellets the other for small portions of snow. I am still slightly unsure about what materials to use for my barrel, afterall i do want to make the gun vissually apealing but also strong. I think i will paint it all black because i like the color. The diagram was jsut a quick sketch and i am unsure about what other specs to give you. I think it should be eanoth to show you my ideas. I hope these are not too difficult for a first gun. Any advice will be greatly appriciated, i want my first gun to be good.

p.s. The barrel at the bottom is just a little idea of mine which i found on a thread here to get a really fast projectile but i am unsure about it and so i will most probably forget about it.
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Unread postAuthor: jitup » Fri Dec 12, 2008 4:37 pm

I say you should just make it out of PVC. It is your first gun, so I would either make a barrel sealing piston using JSR's epoxy method or use a modded sprinkler valve for your main valve.

For your first gun I would stay in the 120 psi range like everyone, including myself, have kept telling you over and over again. Other than that the plans look alright to me, but is sort of hard to see what you drew on my screen. I don't see the workings of the hammer valve. Maybe you should just draw a cut away pic. of your valve to demonstrate how it will work.
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Unread postAuthor: john bunsenburner » Fri Dec 12, 2008 4:56 pm

PVC is very hard to get here and they barely have pressure rated pipes here, if then they are very expensive and there is only one or two diameters which are far too large for my liking. What is somewhat confusing to me is that everyone tells me somethign else, you say 120psi rag said 20bar at max(290psi i think). I will not take my gun over 150psi at the begining but i want it o be able to handle higher pressures, it is very expensive to build spuds and so i will have to stick to building one gun for the next few months. I will make a diagram of the trigger system(which i will most probably change atleast three times before being happy) when i get back from skiing(long like switzerland!!!) tomorrow. Any comments apricientated, i really want to have lots of critic(if that is the correct spelling) here so my final gun will be a good first experience.
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Unread postAuthor: jitup » Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:04 pm

I did not relize, I live in the USA, and it cost me $20 to build my first gun (it was cheaper but I kept modding it total price was $20) and I am currently working on a 3 in piston valve gun that is massize, and I have almost all the parts ans I am still below $40. Over here it is super easy to find any pvc you need (except 1.5 in SCH 21 :? )

I am sorry about that. If you are not using PVC 20 bar is no problem if you use the right materials.

BTW what is the max pressure some one could take a 3 in piston valve gun up to? the lowest rating of my pipe is 280 PSI. Can the glue handle that?

OOps! sorry for Hijaking your thread! :D
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Unread postAuthor: psycix » Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:23 pm

Scannen0002.jpg

What country are you from? Also dutch?

you say 120psi rag said 20bar at max(290psi i think).

Rating of PVC pipe depends on wall thickness.
Thinwall pvc pive cant handle more then a few bar, normal pressure rated pvc pipe should be able to handle 120psi, and very thick walled (and low diameter) pipe could handle 300 psi (20bar).



@jitup
BTW what is the max pressure some one could take a 3 in piston valve gun up to? the lowest rating of my pipe is 280 PSI. Can the glue handle that?

What kind of glue are you using?
You mean the glue to keep the PVC together? If it is solvent welding glue, it should be very strong. If it is NOT solvent welding glue, I wouldnt trust it (not made for pressurized applications)
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Unread postAuthor: jitup » Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:16 pm

@psycix
I use the solvent two step glue process. purple primer than solvent glue.
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Unread postAuthor: john bunsenburner » Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:01 am

I am guessing my plans are good so far, i am off to skiing and will be back tonight, thats when i will show some more plans of the actual trigger.
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Sat Dec 13, 2008 3:40 am

uhmmm.. I see you like to over complicate things, do you? :wink:

what you should do:
1. use malleable iron fittings and pipes (this would make your gun relatively cheap, strong and capable of taking high pressures if you want to up the pressure)
2. get a QEV valve (I sent you a link to a shop that sells them several weeks ago)
3. buy a simple 1/2" ballvalve for piloting or a blowgun

anything I mentioned in points 1,2 and 3 can be scrapped and reused to build your next guns - that's how I cut costs
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Unread postAuthor: john bunsenburner » Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:40 pm

The thing is i was experimenting around with valves so i have the hammer valve already. I might be wrong but for me spudgunning greatly involves working with the materials i have these consist of: Aluminium pipe in most sizes, copper pipe in most sizes carbonfiber pipes. What i also have is iron and PVC pipe in large sizes. I want two barrels one for snow (2cm is good eanoth) and the other for my own pellets. I am really trying to avoid buying off the internet simpyl because i think i can make something just as good my self(i love making things hard for myself). I realize that you all think i am making this way too hard but it is more difficult tomake it simpel(if that makes sense...). I will finish the post with the following: Water and electricity always take the way of least resistance, I am neither.
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Unread postAuthor: frankrede » Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:55 pm

A balsa piston won't last long before it is destroyed after repeated shots.
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Unread postAuthor: john bunsenburner » Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:03 pm

It was ment to be a one time use piston to achieve high velocities but i think i will forget about that for now(i do have certain boundarys which i set my self)
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Unread postAuthor: starman » Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:22 pm

john bunsenburner wrote:It was ment to be a one time use piston to achieve high velocities but i think i will forget about that for now(i do have certain boundarys which i set my self)


Just a little advice here John....You've got to crawl before you can walk, and walk before you can run. For your first gun, you should set your sights on something that is fairly easily achieviable using proven designs and readily available materials.

You're thoughts of achieving high velocities with balsa etc are good thoughts...shows you are a thinking person. However, you need to experience what it's like to actually build something. I think you'll find even supposedly simple, beginner cannons to be plenty of challenge.
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Unread postAuthor: john bunsenburner » Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:29 pm

My problem as said before is that your "begginer cannons" are really hard for me to make. the costs involved are also enormous, there are more taxes on PVC because it is not recylable, You obviously forgot that switzerland is the Mekka of recyling. I have the hamme rvalve and the stock, i ahev the chamber all set and ready to go, i just want to know wether or not you think there ar any minor or major problems with ym idea, i will keep some sort of "diary" of how the gun is built wich i will post here. All i need now is the little push to get me started, all i need is something like: That looks like it should work. Then i will shwo you step by step what i am doing i jsut want to get this project started properly.
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Unread postAuthor: starman » Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:58 pm

I'm plenty familiar with Europe's generally insane policies regarding some perfectly good materials. I'm not saying you have to make a PVC cannon. Also, I believe Poland's advice above is good...you should heed it.

Another thing. To properly and safely participate in the spudding hobby, you need to expect to spend some cash, just like any other hobby. It doesn't have to be a fortune and you won't need gold-plated barrels and such... :roll: But, if you haven't enlisted your parents or other responsible adult and their associated funding abilities into your adventure, I would suggest you do so soon. Building cannons out of make-do materials you just happen to have is a recipe for danger, especially with your inexperience.
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Unread postAuthor: john bunsenburner » Sat Dec 13, 2008 2:50 pm

I perfectly understand you, but switzerland is worse than the average european country. Why should i spend 100-200chf(about 100-200$) on a pvc gun if i can make one for half the price from copper? My parents are perfectly aware of what i am doing but still i find it dumb to spend more money than i need to. I am ok with spending 150$ for a nice metal gun btu not for a crappy piece of plastic(you see i am no fan of PVC) that i cannot use 2/3 of the year beacuse it will blow my face away. I need matal because of the temperature and the relatively low price. I am using a hammer valve because it is easyer to get for me than and QEV. I could order it of coarse but why should I if I can make somehting for half the cost and then have a feeling of pride when looking at my gun and saying: I made it all my self. It is the same princable that nearly rules spud gunning, I could say why do you guys not just buy guns, why bother? But i think any proper spudder feels something when firering their own gun. If it is not so maybe i am talkign to the wrong peopel, or i am the wrong person for you to talk to.

On a more practical side of this: The gun i am aiming for is supposed to look realalistic and feel like that too. It has to be compact, and apealing to the eye, to my eye. All these goals are far behind safety but metal is the safer option for me. I will really consider the QEV valve but i think it is jsut not the right thing for me. As i said before i will not use high pressure, i jsut want my gun to be able to hold them once i get more advanced. I want exchangeable barrels because i will not build millions of guns, i will just replace parts(so i might find i do not like the hammer valve and then exchange it for a QEV one). Really there is only one thing i need from you. I need an OK, maybe i will decide it is to hard i will then put the gun away and try something easyer first, I know my goals are very difficult and that a normal noob will not be able to achieve them but i shall try :P . The thing i do not have is experience and all i really beg you to give me is an OK this might work or something of the like, and please i am very thankful for something like: are you mad that guns will not work you would have to exchange the following:... I hope this clears things up.
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