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penetration

Post questions and info about pneumatic (compressed gas) powered cannons here. This includes discussion about valves, pipe types, compressors, alternate gas setups, and anything else relevant.
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Unread postAuthor: CasinoVanart » Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:42 pm

jackssmirkingrevenge wrote:
CasinoVanart wrote:IDK, remember the thread about the guy piercing a coin with a crappy ball valve pneumo? I called BS on that one, so did many others


True, however that was something no one here had tested. I've made enough small calibre piston launchers to know the value of high pressure, and there is no way that one chan achieve that sort of performance at 18 psi.

Videos proving me wrong would be most welcome :)


Yeah i know what you mean Jack, i won't be holding my breath until he comes out with proof thats for sure! :geek:

I reckon with 18 psi and 16 grain ammo one would be lucky to pierce the skin on custard.
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Unread postAuthor: dilweed » Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:45 pm

i will try to convinece my parents to let me take pictures. It's not that much of an achievement with the materials i shot against. Im just pleased that it can do it. I thought piston and commercial guns were much stronger!
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Unread postAuthor: CasinoVanart » Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:49 pm

dilweed wrote: I thought piston and commercial guns were much stronger!


Thats because they are :wink:
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Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:50 pm

@CasinoVanart: Needles versus coins is a very different matter to this. In that case you're dealing with a colossally high sectional density.

In this case, we're dealing with a light weight and unoptimised projectile.

And in case I've not stressed it enough, things do not bounce back after they've penetrated.
For something to bounce back, the target has to be both elastic, and able to withstand the forces required to reverse the direction of the pellet's motion. If the target has already been penetrated it is clear that the target is not able to withstand the ricochet forces - and paper is certainly not elastic.
If anybody can get anything to ricochet that hard off a soft surface at a neat perpendicular impact angle, I'll eat my hat. (Disclaimer: Does not own a hat.)

If I may quote Ernest Rutherford when talking about his scattering experiments: "It was as if you fired a 15-inch shell at a sheet of tissue paper and it came back to hit you."
It's simple logic. If it penetrates, it can't ricochet.
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Unread postAuthor: dilweed » Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:53 pm

yes but the last magazine was much srtonger with a hard plastic cover. I was very dissapointed when i fired it at the same pressure and it didnt pentrate it. Its a Misura emme interiors magazine
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Unread postAuthor: nibbler125 » Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:54 pm

around in my room



airguns in youre room is bad mkay I have been down that road only I got a crack in my 5' by 5' window. and another time i had my dvd player out and a bb bounced off something cracking my dvd player screen. and i only had that dvd player for a few days.
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Unread postAuthor: Hubb » Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:56 pm

nibbler125 wrote:airguns in youre room is bad mkay I have been down that road only I got a crack in my 5' by 5' window. and another time i had my dvd player out and a bb bounced off something cracking my dvd player screen. and i only had that dvd player for a few days.


Reading this indicates that you've found out the hard way not to shoot an airgun in your room...twice.
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Unread postAuthor: LCTChamp » Thu Dec 18, 2008 4:00 pm

Well obviously without prove we all will clearly call this bs, as I do. Dilweed what were you trying to accomplish with this lie? If you were trying to gain respect and look like a good spud gunner then your plan totally backfired. Honesty is a key virtue. Unless you can provide proof (which I highly doubt is possible) I would suggest you confess and ask for forgiveness.
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Unread postAuthor: dilweed » Thu Dec 18, 2008 4:06 pm

im not lyong, the pump must have some problem but i defeniatley couldnt have reached 100 psi. As to uploading pictures i just tried to email them to myself with my phone. It said insufficient funds so i will ask my prents tommorow if i can borrow thier camera. the magazines i mentioned are much softer than you think, believe me. I wouldnt have put this on if i was lying. I WILL TRY PICTURES TOMMOROW, IF NOT THEN ILL TRY AGAIN!. And ill upload pictures of my gun. I feel EXTREMELY insulted that you all should repond in this fashion. Go down to your store and by 5 magazines of "the week" then shoot them. With an extremely low velocity homemade crossbow i can nail this amount of material together. the paper of the magazines is bad quality almost like NEWSPAPER!!!!! GAH MY HEART BLEEDS FORM SUCH ATTACKS ON MY HONOUR!!!. no seriously youl see what im talking about
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Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Thu Dec 18, 2008 4:22 pm

dilweed wrote:I feel EXTREMELY insulted that you all should respond in this fashion.

It was rather inevitable.

Think logically. Supposing for a moment that you're being honest, in your own words, you're thinking things like this:
I'm just pleased that it can do it. I thought piston and commercial guns were much stronger!


In other (my) words, if you're somewhat surprised by the result yourself and were expecting considerably less, then how exactly do you think we'll react if we don't have the evidence you have?

... Obviously, we'll react along the lines of the fact that we expect considerably less.

For a hypothetical situation, let's say that through experiment, I find I can lift a small car single handed. Needless to say, I am personally surprised to find I can do it.
So, I post on a forum: "Hey guys! I just lifted a car!"
Do you expect people will just automatically accept I can lift a car without any proof?

If you want to be believed from the outset, where claims that even you find are unexpected are to be posted, evidence is a must.

Posting afterwards: "Sorry, I can't get pictures to load on to the net" just sounds like stalling for time.
Why can't you ask your parents to borrow the camera NOW? It's hardly a big ask.
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Unread postAuthor: dilweed » Thu Dec 18, 2008 4:25 pm

because itd 21:31 and they wont let me have the gun if i show a picture of a metal pellet shot through 5 magazines. They only want me firing paintballs. Ragnock, if you want to get some copies of the week and shoot them, your guns can easily plow through 3 times that amount!
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Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Thu Dec 18, 2008 4:47 pm

dilweed wrote:They only want me firing paintballs.

Well, you won't fit many paintballs down a 0.177" barrel, so you're already on dodgy ground there...

Ragnarok, if you want to get some copies of the week and shoot them, your guns can easily plow through 3 times that amount!

Because I'm not that inclined to buy news publications for shooting holes in.

However, I have a .177" air rifle that I have shot into old catalogues and phone directories, and I know what it's capable of penetrating in terms of paper thickness, and what you claim would be fairly generous for my rifle to achieve.
And from simple maths, I can tell my air rifle has got a fair amount more power than your launcher, so (presumably) you can tell where my scepticism comes from.

But like I said, that wasn't my whole complaint. Your ricochet claim is just too much to be believable to me.
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Unread postAuthor: dilweed » Thu Dec 18, 2008 4:54 pm

I cant fit paintballs down the barrel! thats why my .177 cal barrels an attachment. THE MAGAZINES I SHOT AGAINST AREN'T STRONG!!!!! The ricochet was caused by the pellet leaving the cardboard, flying sideways for 3 inches, hit the THICK magazine at the back and bounce of at an angle upwards( I shot at it pointing up wards a little) hitting my ceiling and bouncing off my head. I WILL TRY TO GET PICTRES, JUST NEED TO TRY AND CONVINDE MY PARENTS. Sorry for causing this misunderstanding.
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Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Thu Dec 18, 2008 5:12 pm

dilweed wrote:I cant fit paintballs down the barrel! thats why my .177 cal barrels an attachment.

You have an alternate PB (0.68") barrel when you have a 1/4" (0.25") diameter chamber? Okay, that's got to be one of the stranger designs I've ever heard of.

THE MAGAZINES I SHOT AGAINST AREN'T STRONG!!!!!

Neither is the stuff I'm used to shooting. I've shot Argos catalogues, and those are the flimsiest paper short of bog roll.

There's a bible in my university room (dumped here by the Gideons) with fairly non substantial pages, a little lighter than cheap "throw-away" magazines. I've just checked the page numbers, which run to about 1300, so that makes it 650 sheets thick, about twice what you're claiming, ignoring the cardboard (and for the book, the hardback covers.)

I know from experience that my air rifle wouldn't go through half this bible (although I don't have it here with me to try... :tongue3:), and like I said, odds are on my air rifle being more powerful.

I'll be waiting for the pictures, but... well.
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Unread postAuthor: MrCrowley » Thu Dec 18, 2008 5:15 pm

Okay, no more posts until dilweed provides photos.

At the moment, dilweed, everyone thinks you're telling BS.
You're making the claim, so provide the evidence.
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