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Strange sprinkler valve. Help Please!

Post questions and info about pneumatic (compressed gas) powered cannons here. This includes discussion about valves, pipe types, compressors, alternate gas setups, and anything else relevant.
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Strange sprinkler valve. Help Please!

Unread postAuthor: daniele tn » Tue May 05, 2009 11:12 am

I recently found this sprinkler valve to upgrade my small pneumatic.
http://www.cheapest-online-garden-centre.co.uk/acatalog/irrigation_gardena_watering_valve_1251-20-tn.jpg
The problem is that the solenoid isn't external as the ones I've always seen, but is in the valve.
How can I mod it to pneumatically activate it?
Thanks.
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Unread postAuthor: Hubb » Tue May 05, 2009 11:14 am

Do you currently own said valve? If not, I would suggest just getting a normal one. If you do, some internal pics would be quite helpful.
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Unread postAuthor: paaiyan » Tue May 05, 2009 11:17 am

Agreed, just get a regular one, haha.
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Unread postAuthor: daniele tn » Tue May 05, 2009 11:27 am

paaiyan wrote:Agreed, just get a regular one, haha.

First, I already have it and I would like to use it, second it's nearly impossible to get "a regular one" here in Belgium.

To hubb017, I already have it, I will make some photos soon, but here is a diagram.(PDF)
http://www.gardena.com/RES/resources/xviews_pdf/01278-20.pdf
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Unread postAuthor: Hubb » Tue May 05, 2009 11:47 am

First off, let me say this, Welcome to Spudfiles.

Now, on to your valve, I've never seen one like this, so the following may or may not be worth anything. Here is my take on pneumatically modifying this valve:

You will want to remove 22 and 21 and fill that hole with epoxy (looks like manual operation switch). 19 may or may not be left in place (looks like a bleedout screw, but that may be 27 also, not sure). Either place the tapped fitting through 20, 26, or both (again, not sure). 23, 24, and 25 may or may not be removed (I have no idea what they are for, unless it is part of the solenoid cutoff).

But, good luck with it.
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Tue May 05, 2009 12:01 pm

if you live in europe I strongly suggest buying a QEV valve instead - they have better performance than sprinkler valves and can handle higher pressures

also switch to metal - PVC pipes might be hard to get in europe... besides with metal you can use higher pressures

sorry if this is not the answer you expected but that's the best thing you can do
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Unread postAuthor: daniele tn » Tue May 05, 2009 12:08 pm

Thanks to everyone, I'm gonna see what I can do, and yes, there is a manual operation switch.

For POLAND_SPUD , I've been searching QEV's but I cannot find them.
The whole gun is in metal, only the sprinkler is in plastic, but is rated to 18 bar.
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Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Tue May 05, 2009 12:17 pm

Well, Poland Spud is being tautological by saying "QEV valve"...

QEV stands for Quick Exhaust Valve. They're normally found in pneumatic supply websites for pneumatic cylinder control.

Of course, there is the other option - just run it electrically if you're really having trouble. It won't have quite as much power, but at least it's simple.
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Tue May 05, 2009 12:25 pm

in poland most shops selling pneumatic equipment have QEVs so I am sure they must be available in belgium as well...

BtB is from netherlands you should contact him - IIRC he sells them or he used to sell them

18 bar
most people from europe use higher pressures than that... again I suggest sending a private message to BTB or psycix -they should be able to help you as they live in netherland

ohh one more thing... you might consider building a fridge compressor - it's a high pressure pump made from... uhmmm a fridge compressor :wink: - it really makes life easier and gives MOAR power link[/url]

EDIT
and rag is being fastidious as usual...:wink: I think that it helped to provide additional information - we can't assume that everyone knows what is a QEV... sure it would be better if I explaind what it stands for but nobody is perfect
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Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Tue May 05, 2009 12:58 pm

I'm certainly fastidious, but that's not necessarily a bad thing...

POLAND_SPUD wrote:most people from europe use higher pressures than that...

Perhaps we do. That does not mean that we should force any European who joins the site to immediately jump up to the level of experienced spudding veterans.

I'm going to be quite honest, you're giving suggestions that although they're fine things for someone who knows the subject to do, are not a good idea to suggest to the newbies, because then they'll feel they have to live up to them, but they don't have the experience to do it safely.

Daniele, I'd seriously recommend that you don't take Poland's recommendations of using high pressures just yet. Don't start striving after other people's 30 or 40 bar cannons until you're ready.

For now, an 18-bar valve should be more than enough, and even then I'd advise being cautious. Well, I'd always advise modesty and caution when spudding. You should always respect compressed gas - because it's sure as hell not going to afford you any respect if anything goes wrong.
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Unread postAuthor: paaiyan » Tue May 05, 2009 1:11 pm

Ragnarok wrote:That does not mean that we should force any European who joins the site to immediately jump up to the level of experienced spudding veterans.


Oh... I guess I'll forget about suggesting a hybrid then.
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Tue May 05, 2009 2:23 pm

@rag
actually my suggestion helps him to stay safe....
he said that his gun is an all metal one so it wouldn't be wise to play with a PVC sprinkler valve

moreover, most of us don't have insufficient funds - I suggested using a QEV becasue they have better performance.... but buying a QEV doesn't force him to use high pressures but it does give him possibility of using higher pressures in the future (lol let's be honest people will always try to use higher pressures - and his valve is most likely the first thing that can burst)


earlier I suggested switching to metal, which is safer than PVC... its weight is a serious limitation so most launchers are small bore... naturally people use higher pressures because of that....
moreover, since most launchers are smaller their chamber volume is smaller that's why I suggested building a fridge compressor...

I provided a link to my how-to on fridge compressors.. almost on every page of it I warn that HP is dangerous

besides I didn't say that he should use 30 or 40 bar... but as I said earlier it's almost sure that one day he will try higher pressures... in fact by suggesting him to use metal and metal parts (QEVs) I increase his safety not decrease it


That does not mean that we should force any European who joins the site to immediately jump up to the level of experienced spudding veterans

it has nothing to do with experience - it's all about material availability...
rag someone as inteligent as you should know that a low pressure PVC gun is in fact more dangerous than an HP metal gun - not only becasue PVC is brittle and has low bursting pressure but becasue it's very simple to build a large bore high energy launcher from PVC... it takes some time to build an all metal gun that can match muzzle energy of a basic PVC combustion or pneumatic


finally, why do I get the impression that your post is a result of my response to your comment...? you don't have to attack people just becasue they don't agree with your opinion.. don't take it personally, I like you and your style but that's quite annoying
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Unread postAuthor: daniele tn » Tue May 05, 2009 2:48 pm

Thanks everyone, I found another valve like that one and I modded it, just drillig a hole in the side, at the right height.
Tomorrow I'll try it.
I already have a small compressor that runs on 12 volts, rated for 250 psi.
Sometimes I use 12 g CO2 thingies and I don't even know what pressure I arrive at, my gauge is limited to 14bars.
All of that with metal ball valve.
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Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Tue May 05, 2009 3:07 pm

POLAND_SPUD wrote:finally, why do I get the impression that your post is a result of my response to your comment...?

Not in the slightest. I wrote almost the entirety of the post before I saw you'd added that comment - the only thing I added afterwards was my acceptance that I can be fastidious.

If I have written anything else as a response to it, then I have to have subconscious clairvoyance.

You don't have to attack people just because they don't agree with your opinion.

I'm not attacking you. I am however disagreeing with you.

What you said was the equivalent of "You've never swum before? Well, almost everyone here swims in a much deeper part of the pool than you're about to jump into."
You didn't say the people in the deep end of the pool have all been swimming for some time, or that they spent enough time paddling in the shallow end.

I was saying that it's really not a good idea to leap in where it's that deep until you've got the experience to handle it. The spudding pool does not have a lifeguard.

Short version: You implied that 18 bar is a modest amount for anyone, even a newbie, to handle.

Even I wouldn't be in the slightest lax about 18 bar. You shouldn't be, and nor should you say anything that's likely to make Daniele be lax over it either.
No-one should be lax about those pressures, especially not someone who is still developing experience.
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Tue May 05, 2009 3:16 pm

12V tyre compressors are no good - I know I had one - the good thing is that you can get a free gauge rated to 250 psi and a motor when it breaks down..
fridge compressors are durable, quiet, have higher flow and can achieve higher pressures... it's a good idea to start searching for one as they can be hard to get in some countries

If you have problems with finding parts it's a good idea to visit ebay from time to time (or a similar site) I got most of my stuff from a similar site for a fraction of what I would have had to pay if I had bought it in a normal shop

@rag
ohhh jesus... did you read my comment? I didn't say that he should use more than 18 bar.. but it's obvious that he will use more anyway - look around... most of use have done it...


if I encourage europeans to use metal that's becasue it's easier, cheaper and safer in the long run... PVC might be difficult to get in europe, there are different naming conventions and standards so one can make a mistake that will cost him a lot


metal as a construciton material is much safer than PVC and one can get away with most mistakes, which are indispencible part of learing (mind you that you suggest that he lacks experience)


as I explained in my previous post it's natural that one will use higher pressures to achieve more power... and again he and others will do so - that's the first MOAR law
in fact he already used higher pressures... I am sure you are fully aware that if he had used PVC with CO2 it could have ended in an accident

and since he isn't made of money it was a good idea to suggest him to use parts which are both better and safer...

so what's wrong in saying that people who use metal as a construciton material tend to use higher pressures ?? It only helps him to make the right choices as far as selection of parts is concerned - so in other words that helps him to save money and stay safe at the same time


What you said was the equivalent of "You've never swum before? Well, almost everyone here swims in a much deeper part of the pool than you're about to jump into."
ohh that's exactly what I meant - but you forgot to add -> 'now I will tell you something that can help you stay safe now and in the future'

lol I've had enough of it...
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Last edited by POLAND_SPUD on Tue May 05, 2009 4:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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