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Patch/ball or ball/patch?

Post questions and info about pneumatic (compressed gas) powered cannons here. This includes discussion about valves, pipe types, compressors, alternate gas setups, and anything else relevant.
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Patch/ball or ball/patch?

Unread postAuthor: boyntonstu » Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:12 am

Patch/ball or ball/patch?

In a muzzle loader the patch goes in first.

If you breech load the same projectile, the patch goes in first as well.

What will happen to accuracy with the reversed projectile/patch?

A high speed camera may show us some details that we could consider.

I would try both methods in the same gun to compare.

BoyntonStu
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Re: Patch/ball or ball/patch?

Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:43 am

boyntonstu wrote:If you breech load the same projectile, the patch goes in first as well.

And what's the point of that? The patch will just blow out of the barrel ahead of the projectile.

Personally, I wrap my projectiles in my wadding/patches, then load it all as one, open end first.
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Re: Patch/ball or ball/patch?

Unread postAuthor: boyntonstu » Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:47 am

Ragnarok wrote:
boyntonstu wrote:If you breech load the same projectile, the patch goes in first as well.

And what's the point of that? The patch will just blow out of the barrel ahead of the projectile.

Personally, I wrap my projectiles in my wadding/patches, then load it all as one, open end first.


Loading from the breech leaves no choice and it is opposite than muzzle loading.
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Re: Patch/ball or ball/patch?

Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:20 am

boyntonstu wrote:Loading from the breech leaves no choice

No, it really doesn't. It's perfectly possible to wrap the projectile in the patch and load patch rearward - or if not, you can patch it on each side. One to stop blowby, one to stop it rolling forwards.

it is opposite than muzzle loading.

Do not take me for an idiot. You simply couldn't end up with 3719 posts on this forum without knowing what muzzle and breech loading are.

While I may not be the top poster (currently 4th), nor the highest qualified member on this forum, my knowledge - to be truthful, if immodest - of the construction, operation and physics behind spudguns still has to qualify as highly exemplary.

Suffice to say, you do not need to explain the basic concepts to me.
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Unread postAuthor: Moonbogg » Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:35 am

Here I also have direct experience. This makes me a sovereign breech loading god of patch and ball. I wrap the patch around the golf ball and stick the open end of the patch in the barrel first, so it doesn't blow out in front of the ball, like Ragnarok said. It can be tricky though, because the patch wants to open on you, making it difficult to fit in. So, I find it helps to get a nice big patch that almost wraps fully around but not quite. Then twist the front part which helps it sort of stay attached to the ball. I am out of hot air now so I shall end this post.
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Re: Patch/ball or ball/patch?

Unread postAuthor: boyntonstu » Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:28 am

Ragnarok wrote:
boyntonstu wrote:Loading from the breech leaves no choice

No, it really doesn't. It's perfectly possible to wrap the projectile in the patch and load patch rearward - or if not, you can patch it on each side. One to stop blowby, one to stop it rolling forwards.

it is opposite than muzzle loading.

Do not take me for an idiot. You simply couldn't end up with 3719 posts on this forum without knowing what muzzle and breech loading are.

While I may not be the top poster (currently 4th), nor the highest qualified member on this forum, my knowledge - to be truthful, if immodest - of the construction, operation and physics behind spudguns still has to qualify as highly exemplary.

Suffice to say, you do not need to explain the basic concepts to me.



2 patches, that makes sense.

Thanks,

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Muzzle loading 101

Unread postAuthor: Technician1002 » Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:36 am

Note, this is to show the industry norm for muzzle loaded rifles. The use of blackpowder in home made spudguns is against the forum rules. Don't do it.

EDIT, first video didn't use a patch.. Oops. Replaced with another with a patch. This video has a prime example of where the phrase "A flash in the pan" originated. Younger folks may not be aware of the origin of the term. :D
If you have a black powder gun, don't post it here.
Note a discussion on the forum on solid propellants will get the thread locked.
Example; http://www.spudfiles.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17115&

Video is for patch muzzle loading only.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pn7lxMP_qBc[/youtube]
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Last edited by Technician1002 on Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:23 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Muzzle loading 101

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Unread postAuthor: boyntonstu » Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:49 am

Thanks,

Is there a breech loading video with patches?

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Re: Muzzle loading 101

Unread postAuthor: Moonbogg » Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:18 pm

Technician1002 wrote:Note, this is to show the industry norm for muzzle loaded rifles. The use of blackpowder in home made spudguns is against the forum rules. Don't do it.

EDIT, first video didn't use a patch.. Oops. Replaced with another with a patch. This video has a prime example of where the phrase "A flash in the pan" originated. Younger folks may not be aware of the origin of the term. :D
If you have a black powder gun, don't post it here.
Note a discussion on the forum on solid propellants will get the thread locked.
Example; http://www.spudfiles.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17115&

Video is for patch muzzle loading only.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pn7lxMP_qBc[/youtube]


For shizzle my frizzen! Cool video. Maybe i'll load them from the muzzle from now on. Perhaps I will get better results. I am just anal about using the breech since I would like to think that the breech is all I need for any ammo.
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Unread postAuthor: Hotwired » Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:09 pm

boyntonstu wrote:Is there a breech loading video with patches?


Breechloading took off with self contained cartridges.

The patch/paper cartridge wadding wasn't needed to secure the bullet in the barrel anymore, it was either stopped by the start of the rifling or held in place by the cartridge.

There are a couple of breechloading flintlocks but one is essentially a pistol flintlock that is loaded and has a long barrel attached after loading the short pistol bit - that loads from the muzzle of the pistol sized section exactly like a normal muzzle loading flintlock so is a bit "meh". The other holds the ball at the rifling so powder can be poured in behind it. No patches there.
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