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paintball barrel rifling

Post questions and info about pneumatic (compressed gas) powered cannons here. This includes discussion about valves, pipe types, compressors, alternate gas setups, and anything else relevant.
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Unread postAuthor: TheCrackary » Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:37 am

Ive been playing paintball and shooting cannons for many years now a can definitively say that you will gain no significant improvement in accuracy by shooting a paintball through a rifled barrell. as previously noted coming from a paintball background, i havr fired hundred of thousands of balls and can honestly tell anyone that bore smoothness and ball-bore dia. match is what it comes down to. and as noted above that paintballs have a horrible ballistic coef... basicly if paintballs are used as ammunition of choice one has to accept the range and accuracy associated with that type of ammunition.
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:57 am

If anything, the theoretical benefits of rotating a projectile with a relatively thin skin and liquid core are questionable at best.
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Unread postAuthor: metalmeltr » Mon Dec 21, 2009 8:10 am

Why do you want a highly acurate paint ball gun? I have never thought as paintball guns as highly accurate. Can you increase your air pressure to increase the speed of the round?
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Unread postAuthor: roboman » Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:44 am

metalmeltr wrote:Why do you want a highly acurate paint ball gun? I have never thought as paintball guns as highly accurate. Can you increase your air pressure to increase the speed of the round?


You can, to some extent. However, many fields have a velocity limit, to prevent overpowered guns.
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Unread postAuthor: Heimo » Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:54 am

roboman wrote:
metalmeltr wrote:Why do you want a highly acurate paint ball gun? I have never thought as paintball guns as highly accurate. Can you increase your air pressure to increase the speed of the round?


You can, to some extent. However, many fields have a velocity limit, to prevent overpowered guns.


yes that is true over here at this side of the pond that limit is 300fps my one friend actually got banned from a field cause his gun shot 350fps
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Unread postAuthor: ramses » Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:00 am

jackssmirkingrevenge wrote:If anything, the theoretical benefits of rotating a projectile with a relatively thin skin and liquid core are questionable at best.


I has been proved that you can spin paintballs. The flatline is proof of this. I would avoid rifling, and instead use a hopup like the flatline. Most of the accuracy problems with paintball come from random spin induced in the barrel, causing shots to hook. By forcing backspin onto the paintballs, you can make the random spin insignificant to the predictable spin you induce on purpose. Or just use the $1 each first strike bullets. If you had CNC machining facilities, you could make a 3 piece mold to put a wax tail on normal paintballs (assuming wax sticks to paintballs). You could maybe make 120 per hour.
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Unread postAuthor: Hubb » Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:02 am

ramses wrote:
jackssmirkingrevenge wrote:If anything, the theoretical benefits of rotating a projectile with a relatively thin skin and liquid core are questionable at best.


I has been proved that you can spin paintballs. The flatline is proof of this. I would avoid rifling, and instead use a hopup like the flatline. Most of the accuracy problems with paintball come from random spin induced in the barrel, causing shots to hook. By forcing backspin onto the paintballs, you can make the random spin insignificant to the predictable spin you induce on purpose. Or just use the $1 each first strike bullets. If you had CNC machining facilities, you could make a 3 piece mold to put a wax tail on normal paintballs (assuming wax sticks to paintballs). You could maybe make 120 per hour.
If only others truly understood the benifits of a hopup system for paintball...

Yes, it will add distance, but up to standard ranges, the accuracy is top notch. I've shot a Flatline ever since I've owned a Tippmann and I use it in normal barrel ranges, making headshots (with my setup) at upwards of 75 feet.
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:33 am

ramses wrote:I has been proved that you can spin paintballs. The flatline is proof of this. I would avoid rifling, and instead use a hopup like the flatline.


There is a difference between hopup and rifling.

Hopup creates lift via the magnus effect, for this reason it would work even if the projectile was a hollow ball, as it is purely a surface interaction with the atmosphere. Rifling on the other hand creates gyroscopic stability by rotating the mass of this projectile, for this reason the stabilisation effect shouldn't translate so well to paintballs as it does for solid bullets.
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Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:48 am

jillssmashedroommate wrote:There is a difference between hopup and rifling.

No, I'd argue that the purpose of the hop-up also includes imparting gyroscopic stability. It just enjoys the advantage of also generating lift.

Either way, the skin of a paintball does not have a completely frictionless relationship with the paint - which is a viscous and sticky substance. The two do move pretty much in unison; I tested the theory a while back with something similar to the old "raw vs. boiled egg test".

Pitting a normal and a frozen paintball against one another, the differences in their behaviour were small enough as to beyond the test I had conceived.

Hubb wrote:I use it in normal barrel ranges, making headshots (with my setup) at upwards of 75 feet.

And to me, that just sounds a pretty short range - but I'm not a paintballer.
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Unread postAuthor: D_Hall » Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:58 am

Heimo wrote:yes that is true over here at this side of the pond that limit is 300fps my one friend actually got banned from a field cause his gun shot 350fps

Good on the field operators!


(Sorry, @&&#*@$! running hot guns was a serious peave of mine back when I used to play.)
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Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:24 pm

D_Hall wrote:Sorry, @&&#*@$! running hot guns was a serious peeve of mine back when I used to play.

Some people don't realise that 355 fps is a full 50% more energy than 290 fps.

Squaring velocity adds up fast...
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Unread postAuthor: D_Hall » Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:31 pm

Ragnarok wrote:Some people don't realise that 355 fps is a full 50% more energy than 290 fps.

All it takes is to get shot with one once and you know the difference. No, these dorks aren't ignorant, they simply don't mind cheating.
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Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:00 pm

D_Hall wrote:No, these dorks aren't ignorant, they simply don't mind cheating.

I think it's something of both actually. Often, the excuse is "They're paintballs, what are they going to do?"*

While that may be a lame attempt to justify it, I think there is at least some failure to understand the facts behind the situation.

*The answer to which includes:
Image

... the parts of the potato that used to be which were actually big enough to find and pick up didn't even equate to a quarter of the original potato.

Mind you, most markers haven't been clocked in at 323 m/s.
It will have hit at closer to 300 m/s, based on drag on a paintball at those speeds, but that's still ~150J - .22 Long Rifle energies.

Either way, that kind of "what can they do" statement is a gross misunderstanding of the potential for what might seem relatively harmless to do damage as and when it picks up real speed.

A paintball at 300 fps - unlikely to do permanent damage, unless it finds your eye.
A paintball at 300 m/s - I so do NOT want to be in the way.
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Unread postAuthor: turner » Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:18 pm

i hate that too the field i go to has recball and if you look like you know what your doing the ref doesnt bother going out there
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Unread postAuthor: TheCrackary » Wed Dec 23, 2009 2:20 am

Basicly there are two kinds of people. Ones that shoot flatline ans ones that shoot Freaks or freak style barrel(Tuned bore dia. adjustable). when it comes to paintball no one uses rifled barrels and well if you do u wasted your money. For that sized projectile you simply need more weight for range and accuracy, and thats all there is. And from what ive witnessed in my many years of paintball with the weight and regulated velocity allowed at fields A well matched barrel only needs to be 6-10 inches on avg.
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