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Balanced Condor-style valve

Post questions and info about pneumatic (compressed gas) powered cannons here. This includes discussion about valves, pipe types, compressors, alternate gas setups, and anything else relevant.
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Balanced Condor-style valve

Unread postAuthor: LexXis » Sun Jan 17, 2010 4:12 pm

Hey guys,
i have been reading this forum for a while now, and am really impressed by the stuff you come up with :)
Lately i`ve stumbled upon the AirForce Condor / Talon, wondering about the huge amount of force needed by the spring to open the valve. So i agonized how to make life easier when it comes to hammervalves. This is what i came up with:

A mixture of BTBs pushbutton valve and Technicians QDV.
My main concern with it is wether the pressure at the outlet (see highlighted picture) will prevent the valve from closing or not.
Also i`m pretty interested in your general opinion and recommendations for better performance.

Greets
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:33 pm

Interesting thought, as long as you have a decent valve spring it should have no problem with resealing. Looks like it would be a little complex to implement though without the benefit of machining facilities.
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Unread postAuthor: pyrogeek » Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:17 am

hammer valves seem like kind of a bad idea, but they seem to work find in paintball guns.

The high pressure would help force the striker back to the cocked position and then the spring would have enough force to smack the pin and open the valve.

You could probably make something that would work using plumbing fittings or maybe modifying a junky paintball gun.
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:29 am

pyrogeek wrote:hammer valves seem like kind of a bad idea, but they seem to work fine in paintball guns.


... and pretty much every commercial pneumatic airgun out there.

They're not the best performing valves in the world, but for multiple shots from a single chamber the market speaks for itself.
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Unread postAuthor: pyrogeek » Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:13 am

I've been out of the game a while and never exactly, well, cared to even look into hammer valves. I've always been the bolt action sort of guy, just wanting maximum performance per round, not just spraying ammo.
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:40 am

pyrogeek wrote:I've been out of the game a while and never exactly, well, cared to even look into hammer valves. I've always been the bolt action sort of guy, just wanting maximum performance per round, not just spraying ammo.


Given high pressure, the performance is certainly there, especially with the "inline" type hammer valve like the subject of this thread - have a look at the Condor.
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Unread postAuthor: Lex » Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:59 am

Well, i tweaked it a bit (theoretical) and thought about using the pressure for resetting the.. urm, the blue part (Can find the right word for it. Is it "poppet"?).
With this modification, the needed spring in the back of it must only be strong enough to close the valve in an unpressurized state. Pressurized the air/gas will hopefully do this job. May get a bit fiddly due to the small parts, but i think it manageable.
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Unread postAuthor: al-xg » Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:47 am

Just having a hole straight through should do the same job shouldn't it ?
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Unread postAuthor: Lex » Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:49 pm

Just having a hole straight through should do the same job shouldn't it ?

Hm, i`m not quite sure, but i can see vast amounts of air rushing to atmosphere before the valve closes. But with well sealing ammo and a greater area in the rear part than on the front this could do it. Not to mention the lesser complexity :roll:
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:06 pm

Is there any plan to flesh out this idea or is it a purely academic exercise?
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Unread postAuthor: Lex » Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:42 pm

@JSR: Well, atm i`m only interested in the theory behind it. It`s the lack of proper tools, experience, space and money that keeps me from trying. So almost everything that`s required.. But of course everyone is welcome to use and optimize this idea. Just make sure you present it to the community once your done ;)

@al-xg, i think you`re right.. See attached pic
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:46 pm

Lex wrote:@JSR: Well, atm i`m only interested in the theory behind it. It`s the lack of proper tools, experience, space and money that keeps me from trying.


That's a bit defeatist, look what Ant did - a Talon style inline hammer valve with almost no resources whatsoever and for less money than a pitcher of lager ;)
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:57 pm

look what Ant did
hmmm but wouldn't it be better if the valve opened when the barrel moves forward not backward ?
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:38 am

POLAND_SPUD wrote:wouldn't it be better if the valve opened when the barrel moves forward not backward?


In this case I don't think so, as it is the breech slot is sealed when the valve is opened, and the projectile will have left the barrel by the time it is reopened.
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:09 am

uhmm but the spool could itself could be the bolt that loads new round

also dwell time would be improved as pressure would act on it as soon as it opens
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