Login    Register
User Information
Username:
Password:
We are a free and open
community, all are welcome.
Click here to Register
Sponsored
Who is online

In total there are 60 users online :: 4 registered, 0 hidden and 56 guests


Most users ever online was 155 on Mon Aug 15, 2016 1:40 am

Registered users: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Majestic-12 [Bot], Yahoo [Bot] based on users active over the past 5 minutes

The Team
Administrators
Global Moderators
global_moderators.png CS

Hpa Concept

Post questions and info about pneumatic (compressed gas) powered cannons here. This includes discussion about valves, pipe types, compressors, alternate gas setups, and anything else relevant.
Sponsored 
  • Author
    Message

Hpa Concept

Unread postAuthor: velocity3x » Thu Apr 01, 2010 1:24 pm

If this idea has been suggested before, I apologize to the members and the originator.

This drawing is just a quick sketch to illustrate the concept.

In one day of light testing I can use 2 type "K" cylinders of gas ($70 per cyl). I've been looking ways to make HPA inexpensively in large volume in a relatively short time frame. Type "K" cylinders (aka 200cf) normally contain 2500psi and ideal for my purposes. The problem I found with high pressure compressors is that they are slow to produce gas in large volume and they are expensive. A high pressure washer is a fairly common in the home garage and they produce a large volume of incompressible liquid at high pressure.

The basic idea is this:
The pressure washer pumps incompressible liquid into the first tank. The air in the first tank is displaced and forced into the second (holding) tank at higher pressure. When desired pressure has been achieved in the holding tank, the first tank would be drained and the process repeated for the next fill. Essentially, one would be wasting a few gallons of water to gain many cubic feet of HPA.

Practical or not? Thoughts?
  • 0

Attachments
high pressure concept.jpg
high pressure concept.jpg (27.15 KiB) Viewed 456 times
User avatar
velocity3x
Brigadier General
Brigadier General
 
Posts: 827
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:09 pm
Location: Yuma, Arizona
Country: United States (us)
Reputation: 7

Unread postAuthor: Gippeto » Thu Apr 01, 2010 1:57 pm

The idea pops up now and again.

Consider for a moment...Let's make the assumption that you fill the "80" from your shop compressor, and that you've a decent one so it fills to 150psi.

Making a minor attempt (otherwise known as a wag) to account for some of the losses in the system, you'll end up compressing that 150psi 17-18 times (compression ratio) to end up at 2500psi.

It'll obviously take several (understatement) fills of the small cylinder to achieve 2500psi in the K cylinder. It won't be quick or easy, but in the end, it is "do-able".

Have you looked into pressure boosters? A couple in series (or a two stage booster) could be the answer, and as you know someone with skills, and machine tools, they could be sized to provide the fill times you want.
  • 0

"It could be that the purpose of your life is to serve as a warning to others" – unknown

Liberalism is a mental disorder, reality is it's cure.
User avatar
Gippeto
Donating Member
Donating Member
 
Posts: 2393
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:14 am
Location: The Great White North...Canada eh!
Reputation: 11

Unread postAuthor: velocity3x » Thu Apr 01, 2010 2:13 pm

Gippeto wrote:Have you looked into pressure boosters? A couple in series (or a two stage booster) could be the answer.


I've done some looking but, other than scuba compressor$$$ I've not found anything (or combination of things) capable of filling a type "K" to 2500psi in a reasonable time
  • 0

User avatar
velocity3x
Brigadier General
Brigadier General
 
Posts: 827
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:09 pm
Location: Yuma, Arizona
Country: United States (us)
Reputation: 7

Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:04 pm

yeah, what gippetto has said.. or try to build this http://www.spudfiles.com/forums/viewtop ... tml#281822

since you have access to machining and some $ to spare you could be the first person to build one here
  • 0

Children are the future

unless we stop them now
User avatar
POLAND_SPUD
Chief of Staff
Chief of Staff
 
Posts: 5405
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:43 pm
Country: Israel (il)
Reputation: 10

Unread postAuthor: velocity3x » Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:38 pm

Poland,
I've considered designing / building a 2 cylinder, long stroke, high pressure pump with water cooled jackets and driving it with a 5hp 240v motor. I'm beginning to think it's the best solution and I'd rather put the $ in my own design rather than a commercially available pump. I guess I'm just looking for an easy solution as I'm just damn tired of designing/machining, designing/machining! Can't anything ever be easy fix? :lol:
  • 0

User avatar
velocity3x
Brigadier General
Brigadier General
 
Posts: 827
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:09 pm
Location: Yuma, Arizona
Country: United States (us)
Reputation: 7

Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:23 pm

well you can also design an air powered compressor, which is basically almost exactly like a pressure booster...

you'd need a large bore air cylinder, stirrup pump and one or two DCVs

such a design would be a little bit simpler than the one you planned but it requires a shop compressor to operate
  • 0

Children are the future

unless we stop them now
User avatar
POLAND_SPUD
Chief of Staff
Chief of Staff
 
Posts: 5405
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:43 pm
Country: Israel (il)
Reputation: 10

Unread postAuthor: Crna Legija » Thu Apr 01, 2010 7:17 pm

how about a small petrol engine converted do you think it could make that kind of pressure

and why cant you use the pressure washer to pump air directly?
  • 0

'' To alcohol... The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems.”
--Homer Simpson

Add me on ps3: wannafuk, 8/11/11 cant wait
User avatar
Crna Legija
Major General
Major General
 
Posts: 2333
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 5:14 am
Location: australia
Reputation: 0

Sponsored

Sponsor
 


Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:12 pm

@-_-
I've seen car engines modded into air compressors but due to the large diameter of the pistons (and even larger area surface) I don't think teh idea is feasible for high pressures

well unless you can find address that issue... that would require either using some sort of insert that can be put into the cylinder and machining new, smaller pistons or modding a smaller engine
  • 0

Children are the future

unless we stop them now
User avatar
POLAND_SPUD
Chief of Staff
Chief of Staff
 
Posts: 5405
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:43 pm
Country: Israel (il)
Reputation: 10

Return to Pneumatic Cannon Discussion

Who is online

Registered users: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Majestic-12 [Bot], Yahoo [Bot]

Reputation System ©'