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Compact Piston Valve Techniques

Post questions and info about pneumatic (compressed gas) powered cannons here. This includes discussion about valves, pipe types, compressors, alternate gas setups, and anything else relevant.
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Compact Piston Valve Techniques

Unread postAuthor: Bluetooth » Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:15 pm

I have made piston valves in the past, but never disassemble-able (yes, I do make up words), but I want to make one of these such valves, I understand the concepts, but I don't know how to integrate the female threads on the barrel opening of the tee so that you don't have threaded adapters hanging off. On a normal barrel-sealing piston valve, you cut out the stopper-flange in the reducer bushing and slide the barrel through it and into the tee so it can be sealed by the piston, but how do you do that if you want to use a threaded reducer bushing so you can change out the barrels (hopefully I explained what I want, clearly enough)?

I was thinking that you may be able to just put in a threaded reducer bushing and have the piston seal directly against that, but I am not sure if that would work.

The final valve I plan to make will most likely be: Housed in a 3" tee; barrel-sealing; piloted off a 1" sprinkler valve that is piloted off a blowgun (trigger style); filled from a 1/4" quick connect; threaded/removable connections for the barrel, chamber and filling/piloting tee (1" threaded tee); bolted-in style endcap for serviceable piston.

Both the Mauler Valve (and all of its semi-recently newly named little brothers) by Sean Gort and the Supah Valve by Joel Suprise (or whoever owns Spudtech now) are examples of something like what I want, just without the lathes (something I wish I had) and otherwise custom parts (or too heavily modified for me to do).

Thank you for any experienced instruction or purely creative suggestions.

(I will add diagrams for further clearness of what I want to accomplish... When I get around to drawing them up...)
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Unread postAuthor: Gun Freak » Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:19 pm

Umm have a look at this thread. It has some info you might be looking for. It helped me out a bunch.
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Unread postAuthor: mark.f » Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:07 pm

The Supah valve employs a 2" coupling in the back of a standard (though cut down to fit flush in the tee) 3x2" bushing, and the 2" sealing face is in the back of this coupling.

The other way to do it is to double up. Use both a threaded and unthreaded bushing, cut down both approximately in half (you will need to adjust this to keep the right size threads), and modify the slip bushing. Then, simply glue both into the same socket.
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Unread postAuthor: MrCrowley » Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:51 pm

On a normal barrel-sealing piston valve, you cut out the stopper-flange in the reducer bushing and slide the barrel through it and into the tee so it can be sealed by the piston, but how do you do that if you want to use a threaded reducer bushing so you can change out the barrels (hopefully I explained what I want, clearly enough)?

Check "step 9" here. I think that's what you're after. It is a bit difficult to understand so if you need help just ask (as that is my cannon in the link).

BTW, welcome back. I remember you from the forum ages ago.
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Unread postAuthor: Bluetooth » Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:28 pm

mark.f wrote:The Supah valve employs a 2" coupling in the back of a standard (though cut down to fit flush in the tee) 3x2" bushing, and the 2" sealing face is in the back of this coupling.

The other way to do it is to double up. Use both a threaded and unthreaded bushing, cut down both approximately in half (you will need to adjust this to keep the right size threads), and modify the slip bushing. Then, simply glue both into the same socket.


So, let me get this straight (sorry that I don't quite understand). On the Supah valve, it has basically a 2" threaded coupling inside the end on the chamber opening of the tee and the piston seals against the inside end of this coupling and you thread the barrel to the outside (threaded) end? Maybe kind of like the diagram I drew up here?

MrCrowley wrote:Check "step 9" here. I think that's what you're after. It is a bit difficult to understand so if you need help just ask (as that is my cannon in the link).


Thank you for the link, but I understand piston valves fine (it used to be a complicated concept, but now there is so much info on here. I noticed they even stickied some nice animations). I built one just like that one you linked to there. My problem is that I want to make one that is completely contained inside the tee (like the Supah valve or Mauler valve that I had mentioned above). The instuctable you linked there had the female threaded adapter hanging off the end to change barrels and the extension on the back (pilot valve side) so the piston has more space. I want to rid my valve of those, but it seems to be harder than I would have thought.


MrCrowley wrote:BTW, welcome back. I remember you from the forum ages ago.


I remember you too, but I haven't seen many other people I remember (other than sgort and of course, pcguy).
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Chamber Sealing Piston Valve Idea
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Unread postAuthor: mark.f » Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:14 pm

On the supah valve, you have a 3x2" threaded bushing to being with. A normal 2" coupling fits into the back of this bushing, and a piece of 2" pipe fits into this coupling.
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Unread postAuthor: Bluetooth » Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:15 pm

I'm so sorry (I know I'm going to come off as a pain in the a$$ that can't do anything himself), but I still don't get it. The attached pictures are what I am assuming you mean by the parts you mentioned (reducer bushing, coupling and of course the tee they go in).
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Attachments
COUPLING Socket x Socket.png
Coupling (Socket x Socket)
© Copyright 2010 Spears® Manufacturing Company. All Rights Reserved.
COUPLING Socket x Socket.png (9.69 KiB) Viewed 1591 times
REDUCER BUSHING (Flush Style) Spigot x Fipt.png
Reducer Bushing (Spigot x Fipt)
© Copyright 2010 Spears® Manufacturing Company. All Rights Reserved.
REDUCER BUSHING (Flush Style) Spigot x Fipt.png (27.61 KiB) Viewed 1591 times
TEE Socket x Socket x Socket.png
Tee (Socket x Socket x Socket)
© Copyright 2010 Spears® Manufacturing Company. All Rights Reserved.
TEE Socket x Socket x Socket.png (20.67 KiB) Viewed 1591 times
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Unread postAuthor: iknowmy3tables » Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:20 pm

yet another relevant thread/link to mention
and I don't believe bluetooth should attempt the supah valve without a lathe
I think one important question is do you have a belt sander or similar instrument of decent grinding power to slightly trim down the outer diameter of pipes and pipe fittings? Since there is no official standard for the outside diameters of female fittings it may not be wise to design valve around a fitting attachment "shortcuts"
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threaded seat for piston valve.PNG
threaded seat for piston valve.PNG (24.15 KiB) Viewed 1569 times

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Unread postAuthor: Bluetooth » Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:37 pm

iknowmy3tables wrote:yet another relevant thread/link to mention
and I don't believe bluetooth should attempt the supah valve without a lathe
I think one important question is do you have a belt sander or similar instrument of decent grinding power to slightly trim down the outer diameter of pipes and pipe fittings? Since there is no official standard for the outside diameters of female fittings it may not be wise to design valve around a fitting attachment "shortcuts"


I did not intend to make a Supah valve (I obviously don't have a crazy metal lathe setup, or even a wood lathe for that matter). I have basic power tools (e.g. miter saw, table saw, jigsaw, power drill, circular saw, Dremel/roto-tool, belt sander, vibrating sander, orbital sander, etc.). Thank you so much for that diagram. It was exactly was I have been looking for: a way to have a reducer bushing with the extended pipe (sealing face), and the threaded bushing on the outside to screw barrel/chamber onto.
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