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What is Bullpup?

Post questions and info about pneumatic (compressed gas) powered cannons here. This includes discussion about valves, pipe types, compressors, alternate gas setups, and anything else relevant.
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What is Bullpup?

Unread postAuthor: caspar97 » Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:47 am

I tried to find forums that explained it, but the search gave me forums that only mentioned it. I see it mentioned a fair amount, but I don't know what it is or means. Could you please help me here? :?
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Re: What is Bullpup?

Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:51 am

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullpup

Although that's not necessarily entirely valid for most launchers (not having magazines or conventional actions), so I tend to take it as any launcher where the "breech" is behind the main hand grip.
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Unread postAuthor: caspar97 » Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:08 am

Ahh, much thanks! :D
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Re: What is Bullpup?

Unread postAuthor: FighterAce » Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:38 am

Ragnarok wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullpup

I tend to take it as any launcher where the "breech" is behind the main hand grip.


On one of my rifles, the air tank and valve are in the buttstock and the breach starts just in front of the pistol grip, above the trigger, but the actual metal bolt starts at the valve thats way behind the pistol grip.

By your definition, what is this?

Since most launchers dont have conventional actions, wouldnt it be better to say "most of the action parts behind the pistol grip" instead of "breech behind the pistol grip" because having the breech behind the pistol grip can be pretty awkward.
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Re: What is Bullpup?

Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:17 pm

FighterAce wrote:By your definition, what is this?

Probably not a bullpup, although you shouldn't take offence that my definition doesn't necessarily include something your definition does.

wouldnt it be better to say "most of the action parts behind the pistol grip" instead of "breech behind the pistol grip"

Not so much. The thing is, the thing that ties together bullpup firearms is that the breech starts behind the grip, so I'd say it's a perfectly reasonable definition.

...because having the breech behind the pistol grip can be pretty awkward.

Not necessarily. It's a sliding breech, but when actually locked back, it's behind the grip. I wouldn't use the word awkward to describe it.
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Unread postAuthor: Brian the brain » Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:23 pm

I'd say, in the world of spudding, it means the barrel starts behind the grip.

Not all have a breech.

And it is not awkward at all..It's a very smart way of combining a long barrel with a compact overall cannon.
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Unread postAuthor: FighterAce » Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:56 pm

Well... it would be awkward for me at least.. each man is built differently and has different requirements. And I was not talking about a sliding breech... I actually mean to have the breech stationary behind the pistol grip.
Your example in the pic looks pretty good and I dont think is awkward at all. But having to hold the rifle in a unique position to load it and then returning to the firing position is just not practical for me.

But theres a sort of a twist in the definition
Bullpups are firearm configurations in which both the action and magazine are located behind the trigger and alongside the shooter's face, so there is no wasted space for the buttstock as in conventional designs


So.. no wasted space in the stock, action(or breech in this case) behind the pistol grip (btw. note that in the definition it says trigger not grip). If the bolt ie outer barrel starts behind the pistol grip and due to some dead space, the barrel itself ie inner barrel starts slightly in front the grip then what... it has to be one or another, it cant be 50:50.

I think what we need is a solid definition for launchers that cant be overwritten by so many variations so many members can produce.

btw. it almost escaped me... on the picture you posted, the air tank extends pretty far from the grip. See what I mean by variations? If it werent for that air tank it would be a perfect bullpup eh
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Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:42 pm

FighterAce wrote:But theres a sort of a twist in the definition

I wouldn't use Wikipedia as a reliable source of a definition.
In this case, the latter part of the description is more of an explanation why it's done, not part of the definition.

This also including the difference between whether it's trigger or grip. I say grip, as many modern semi automatic handguns would qualify as bull pup if it were merely the trigger everything had to be behind.
(However, the Boberg XR-9 would more or less count by my definition, as the breech sits above the grip.)

btw. it almost escaped me... on the picture you posted, the air tank extends pretty far from the grip.

Well yes. Under-over launcher configuration is in exactly the same kind of vein as bullpup, by using the same length for barrel and chamber.

If anything, I'd say that enhances the "bullpup" nature, maximising barrel length as a percentage of the total length of the launcher.
(On that note, I think Hotwired's Copperhead Prime is probably about the epitome of the bullpup mentality, with the barrel taking up over 95% of the launcher's length.)
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Unread postAuthor: psycix » Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:17 pm

Bullpup allows for a shorter gun or a more powerful gun in the same length. Without bullpup you are basically wasting length on stock that could've been used for more barrel.

In my opinion, bullpup is the way to go in the future.
Not only in spudding, but also in commercial air rifles/firearms.
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Unread postAuthor: FighterAce » Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:34 pm

Some are wasting stock space entirely... most fill it up with barrel length, some with chamber length :D
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Unread postAuthor: psycix » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:44 pm

Which is why the over/under layout was developed. Having your chamber parallel with the barrel instead of inline behind it, you have a more powerful one gun or a shorter one with the same power. Or a bit of both.
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Unread postAuthor: FighterAce » Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:08 pm

You guys keep talking about chambers being parallel with the barrel... what about the valve? If you go with a barrel sealing piston and a triggering mech behind it, it will take up the whole stock... so you go with a chamber sealer and sacrifice performance for a bullpup design?

btw. having the chamber directly behind the barrel with a high flow valve like a bv will result in more power... how much, I dont know but there is a difference.
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Unread postAuthor: c11man » Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:20 pm

Image
By c11man at 2010-07-21

my valve section is quite long but i wasnt trying to make a extremly compact launcher. i went bullpup because i didnt want to hold this much weight away from my body. also the barrel is 4ft long but you cant see most of it in the pic

i say bullpup is were the valve starts back as far as possible
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:25 pm

c11man, one for the showcase soon?

In my opinion, bullpup is the way to go in the future.
Not only in spudding, but also in commercial air rifles/firearms.


Here's an interesting article explaining the pros and cons and why not everyone shares the same opinion.
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