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design question??

Post questions and info about pneumatic (compressed gas) powered cannons here. This includes discussion about valves, pipe types, compressors, alternate gas setups, and anything else relevant.
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design question??

Unread postAuthor: ilovefire » Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:02 am

hey guys, i am thinking of making this design for a multiple shot 2.5mm bore air gun and would like to know if it would work or is my design floored?
just a quick diagram i made, shouldn't be to hard to understand but if there are any questions i will be happy to answer them.
thanks for your help
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Unread postAuthor: chinnerz » Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:10 am

how do you pull back the hammer?

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could you use a cap gun? that way you don't need to pull anything back. just an idea.

also if you dont mind me asking, what are you planning on shooting? (ammo, not targets )
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:40 am

I would go for a lever as opposed to hammer actuated valve as proposed in this thread - you won't need to recock anything, with a magazine it will fire every time you pull the trigger - though fitting a magazine is a bit tricky with a coaxial design.
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Unread postAuthor: chinnerz » Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:59 am

jackssmirkingrevenge wrote:...though fitting a magazine is a bit tricky with a coaxial design.


yeah it sure is! i have been trying to work it out but in the end decided to go with a barrel sealer instead with the chamber on top of the barrel. or that's the plan as of now

any who. wouldn't a hammer open the valve faster then a leaver?
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:15 am

chinnerz wrote:wouldn't a hammer open the valve faster then a lever?


Technically, but on this scale I doubt you would see the difference.
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Unread postAuthor: ilovefire » Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:19 am

chinnerz wrote:how do you pull back the hammer?
could you use a cap gun? that way you don't need to pull anything back. just an idea.

also if you dont mind me asking, what are you planning on shooting? (ammo, not targets )


the hammer will be like a bolt action
as for the cap gun its a good idea but i prefer to make stuff myself instead of using cheep plastic
and for ammo im not sure i was thinking i could cut up some of that beaded chain kind of like whats on dog tags

jackssmirkingrevenge wrote:I would go for a lever as opposed to hammer actuated valve as proposed in this thread - you won't need to recock anything, with a magazine it will fire every time you pull the trigger - though fitting a magazine is a bit tricky with a coaxial design.


i didnt think of using a lever but with only a very small equalization hole it would work???
and yes magazine would be hard even more so on a 2.5mm

chinnerz wrote:any who. wouldn't a hammer open the valve faster then a leaver?


that is another reason i was opting for a hammer valve was you haven't the need to pull the trigger really fast like i have to do on my other coax

jackssmirkingrevenge wrote:
chinnerz wrote:wouldn't a hammer open the valve faster then a lever?


Technically, but on this scale I doubt you would see the difference.


that is a point tho
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Unread postAuthor: qwerty » Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:45 am

I would go for a lever as opposed to hammer actuated valve as proposed in this thread - you won't need to recock anything, with a magazine it will fire every time you pull the trigger - though fitting a magazine is a bit tricky with a coaxial design.


But with his design if he upps the pilot space a little it might just have a chance of reseting itself he would just need the hammer airtight so it gets forced back into the sear.
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:17 am

build a bolt action valveless gun... you can use blowgun as the trigger and it should have much better performance... I hope you know what I am talking about ??
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:08 am

POLAND_SPUD wrote:build a bolt action valveless gun... you can use blowgun as the trigger and it should have much better performance... I hope you know what I am talking about ??


Something conceptually like this? It would certainly have much better performance and efficiency, though it is a tricky build with standard parts.
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Unread postAuthor: ilovefire » Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:38 am

qwerty wrote:But with his design if he upps the pilot space a little it might just have a chance of reseting itself he would just need the hammer airtight so it gets forced back into the sear.


wouldnt the spring on the piston make it reseal? even if the hammer doesn't reset i dont mind having to do it manually

jackssmirkingrevenge wrote:
POLAND_SPUD wrote:build a bolt action valveless gun... you can use blowgun as the trigger and it should have much better performance... I hope you know what I am talking about ??


Something conceptually like this? It would certainly have much better performance and efficiency, though it is a tricky build with standard parts.


yea that dose look a bit tricky to do with the size im making it plus im kinda strange in a way that aesthetics to me are almost as important as performance, but i was hoping for it to be of similar power to my pen gun for a few shots at least
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:43 am

If you make it like this it will be much simpler and compact, and give you the option of auto fire as well. Also using a small calibre, 2-3mm, you'll get a lot more shots per fill.

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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:46 am

yeah, that's what I was thinking about

You'd probably use epoxy to build it but I'd preffer two 1/4" Ts, barrel with two ports cut in it and a few compression fittings to seal it

with a single acting air cylinder it might work like a semi (provided that the pressure drops significantly when you press the trigger and the gun fire... and voila ! you've got a semi pistol )
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Unread postAuthor: ilovefire » Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:57 am

both of your suggestions are good but i am kinda wanting the design i had there are just two things i really want to know
1 will the design work?
2 would it be capable of similar performance as a pen gun?
sorry but i have high tendency to only make things that i like the look of, even if it is only going to disappear after its wick is gone :?
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Thu Sep 02, 2010 6:17 am

The second design is basically a scaled down version of this, it will give you better performance than a pen gun and the possibility of automatic fire.

However, your design will certainly work, but with certain disadvantages, namely:

- the hammer has to be manually recocked after every shot, unless you make it recock through pilot pressure by making it airtight, but this would involve a complex balancing act of spring pressure and venting

- you need to install a magazine unless you plan on reloading it through the muzzle for every shot, and this isn't too easy to achieve with a coaxial
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Unread postAuthor: ilovefire » Thu Sep 02, 2010 6:43 am

jackssmirkingrevenge wrote:The second design is basically a scaled down version of this, it will give you better performance than a pen gun and the possibility of automatic fire.

However, your design will certainly work, but with certain disadvantages, namely:

- the hammer has to be manually recocked after every shot, unless you make it recock through pilot pressure by making it airtight, but this would involve a complex balancing act of spring pressure and venting

- you need to install a magazine unless you plan on reloading it through the muzzle for every shot, and this isn't too easy to achieve with a coaxial


thank you it is good to know that it will work and i have no problem with recocking and muzzle loading so i think i will give it a go, also i have a spear blowgun on my desk and i am kinda liking your idea even more but i think ill have to save it for when i find a supply of small ball bearings :)
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