Login    Register
User Information
Username:
Password:
We are a free and open
community, all are welcome.
Click here to Register
Sponsored
Who is online

In total there are 42 users online :: 5 registered, 0 hidden and 37 guests


Most users ever online was 218 on Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:58 pm

Registered users: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], MSNbot Media, Yahoo [Bot] based on users active over the past 5 minutes

The Team
Administrators
Global Moderators
global_moderators.png CS

Burst Disk Pneumatic Design?

Post questions and info about pneumatic (compressed gas) powered cannons here. This includes discussion about valves, pipe types, compressors, alternate gas setups, and anything else relevant.
Sponsored 
  • Author
    Message

Burst Disk Pneumatic Design?

Unread postAuthor: mlz3000 » Sat Nov 20, 2010 11:49 pm

I was wondering how effective this would be.

The gun would have two burst disks (one in each union in the diagram).
The two burst disks would have between them a volume to act as the pilot, and on one end of this pilot would be a pressure chamber, and on the other side would be the barrel.

The chamber and the pilot would each be filled to just under the burst disk's breaking point (e.g. if the breaking point is 60PSI, raise them both to ~50PSI)

Then fill the chamber so that the difference between the pressure in the chamber and the pressure in the pilot is just under the disk's breaking point (in this example, the chamber would be raised to ~100PSI.

To fire the gun, simply vent air out of the pilot until the difference in pressure between the chamber and pilot bursts the disk between them, and then the pressure from the chamber dumps into the pilot, bursting the other disk, and launching the projectile.
  • 0

Attachments
Burst Disk Pneumatic design.jpg
Burst Disk Pneumatic design.jpg (12.91 KiB) Viewed 808 times
User avatar
mlz3000
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 4:55 pm
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: ilovefire » Sun Nov 21, 2010 12:06 am

you would have to have a way to shut of the pilot valve as soon as its piloted so you dont loose pressure
  • 0

User avatar
ilovefire
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 511
Joined: Sat May 22, 2010 6:48 am
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: Insomniac » Sun Nov 21, 2010 12:47 am

This has been done before, it's a form of triggered burst disk. You don't really need to shut off the pilot, just make sure your pilot valve has very little flow, to reduce loss. Also try and keep the pilot volume low... you want it to vent quickly enough that there's no appreciable delay when firing, and if your pilot valve has low flow then you're going to need a low pilot volume to achieve that.
  • 0

I wonder how much deeper the ocean would be without sponges.
Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before.

Add me on msn!!! insomniac-55@hotmail.com
User avatar
Insomniac
Major General
Major General
 
Posts: 1297
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 3:47 pm
Location: Australia
Country: Australia (au)
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: Technician1002 » Sun Nov 21, 2010 12:51 am

The pilot does for a double disk piloted burst disk does not have to be fast. A small bleed screw works fine to cause one disk to fail, thus causing a failure of the second disk. Little is lost out the pilot.
  • 0

User avatar
Technician1002
Chief of Staff
Chief of Staff
 
Posts: 5190
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:10 am
Reputation: 14

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Sun Nov 21, 2010 2:24 am

It's in the Image ;)

Image
  • 0

User avatar
jackssmirkingrevenge
Donating Member
Donating Member
 
Posts: 24225
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:28 pm
Country: Holy See (Vatican City State) (va)
Reputation: 66

Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Sun Nov 21, 2010 10:22 am

I know it's not what you're asking... but have you considered building a detent gun ?

You'd probably need a lightweight sabot if you want to launch just anything that fits the barrel
  • 0

Children are the future

unless we stop them now
User avatar
POLAND_SPUD
Chief of Staff
Chief of Staff
 
Posts: 5405
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:43 pm
Country: Israel (il)
Reputation: 10

Unread postAuthor: mlz3000 » Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:16 pm

jackssmirkingrevenge wrote:It's in the Image ;)


Ah. I didn't really think such a simple design had not been thought up before.

I guess that answers my question :lol: if it's in the wiki, it's probably because it works :roll: .

I was thinking about potentially using it for a huge cannon at some point down the road, but mostly I just wanted to know if the idea actually worked.
  • 0

Last edited by mlz3000 on Sun Nov 21, 2010 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
mlz3000
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 4:55 pm
Reputation: 0

Sponsored

Sponsor
 


Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:54 pm

POLAND_SPUD wrote:I know it's not what you're asking... but have you considered building a detent gun?


For larger calibres I think it's better to go for a burst disk, with a single disk and reasonably high flow valve you'll get almost instantaneous firing.

Somethingalong these lines.
  • 0

User avatar
jackssmirkingrevenge
Donating Member
Donating Member
 
Posts: 24225
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:28 pm
Country: Holy See (Vatican City State) (va)
Reputation: 66

Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:58 pm

yeah maybe... though I still don't understand what the point is in using two burst disks (I know how it is supposed to work but I don't think it is any better than a burst disk + blowgun (or any other valve) combo)
  • 0

Children are the future

unless we stop them now
User avatar
POLAND_SPUD
Chief of Staff
Chief of Staff
 
Posts: 5405
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:43 pm
Country: Israel (il)
Reputation: 10

Unread postAuthor: Gun Freak » Sun Nov 21, 2010 5:08 pm

Poland probably to improve response time.
  • 0

OG Anti-Hybrid
One man's trash is a true Spudder's treasure!
Golf Ball Cannon "Superna"M16 BBMGPengunHammer Valve Airsoft SniperHigh Pressure .22 Coax
Holy Shat!
User avatar
Gun Freak
Lieutenant General
Lieutenant General
 
Posts: 4969
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:38 pm
Location: Florida
Country: United States (us)
Reputation: 11

Unread postAuthor: mlz3000 » Sun Nov 21, 2010 5:51 pm

Gun Freak wrote:Poland probably to improve response time.


Indeed. I thought it up when me and my friend were contemplating making a huge gun (We figured that if we had to buy PVC in 10' lengths at Home Depot, why not make a 10' gun?). This way we wouldn't have to wait while the compressor took it up those last few PSI to burst the disk, we could just vent a little bit of air.
  • 0

User avatar
mlz3000
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 4:55 pm
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: Gun Freak » Sun Nov 21, 2010 6:21 pm

mlz3000 wrote:(We figured that if we had to buy PVC in 10' lengths at Home Depot, why not make a 10' gun?)

I like the way you think :twisted: :D
Pretty good idea of yours though, I mean its smart, you just got beat to it :) Same thing happened to another guy here. He was a french dude who came here to share his gun with a QDV on it thinking it was original only to find out that Technician1002 had already made one :wink:
  • 0

OG Anti-Hybrid
One man's trash is a true Spudder's treasure!
Golf Ball Cannon "Superna"M16 BBMGPengunHammer Valve Airsoft SniperHigh Pressure .22 Coax
Holy Shat!
User avatar
Gun Freak
Lieutenant General
Lieutenant General
 
Posts: 4969
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:38 pm
Location: Florida
Country: United States (us)
Reputation: 11

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:19 pm

Gun Freak wrote:Same thing happened to another guy here. He was a french dude who came here to share his gun with a QDV on it thinking it was original only to find out that Technician1002 had already made one :wink:


This was even worse :roll:

Gun Freak wrote:Poland probably to improve response time.


Thing is, with huge cannons, you're not exactly holding them to your shoulder and tracking a moving target, if you're lobbing objects far away at a 45 degree angle, or blasting domestic appliances at short range, a 1-2 second delay between opening the valve and the cannon firing shouldn't really make a difference.
  • 0

User avatar
jackssmirkingrevenge
Donating Member
Donating Member
 
Posts: 24225
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:28 pm
Country: Holy See (Vatican City State) (va)
Reputation: 66

Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:58 am

This way we wouldn't have to wait while the compressor took it up those last few PSI to burst the disk, we could just vent a little bit of air.
who said you can't fill the gun to 90psi (assuming that the disk burst at 120psi) and then fill it to 120psi when you want to fire it?
  • 0

Children are the future

unless we stop them now
User avatar
POLAND_SPUD
Chief of Staff
Chief of Staff
 
Posts: 5405
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:43 pm
Country: Israel (il)
Reputation: 10

Unread postAuthor: mlz3000 » Mon Nov 22, 2010 1:08 am

POLAND_SPUD wrote:
This way we wouldn't have to wait while the compressor took it up those last few PSI to burst the disk, we could just vent a little bit of air.
who said you can't fill the gun to 90psi (assuming that the disk burst at 120psi) and then fill it to 120psi when you want to fire it?


That's what this design intended to avoid. With a huge chamber and a small compressor, that would take longer to fire than this design.

But I agree, If I even end up making a burst disk pneumatic, it will probably be just a single disk, and to fire you just fill the chamber until the disk bursts.
  • 0

User avatar
mlz3000
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 4:55 pm
Reputation: 0

Return to Pneumatic Cannon Discussion

Who is online

Registered users: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], MSNbot Media, Yahoo [Bot]

Reputation System ©'