Login    Register
User Information
Username:
Password:
We are a free and open
community, all are welcome.
Click here to Register
Sponsored
Who is online

In total there are 71 users online :: 5 registered, 0 hidden and 66 guests


Most users ever online was 155 on Mon Aug 15, 2016 1:40 am

Registered users: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], MSNbot Media, Yahoo [Bot] based on users active over the past 5 minutes

The Team
Administrators
Global Moderators
global_moderators.png CS

Airgun legal question

Post questions and info about pneumatic (compressed gas) powered cannons here. This includes discussion about valves, pipe types, compressors, alternate gas setups, and anything else relevant.
Sponsored 
  • Author
    Message

Unread postAuthor: LeMaudit » Mon May 02, 2011 10:35 am

Hi Demon,

Here's my understanding for the Canadian law:

Mind that I'm no lawyer, this is my understanding after some research I made on the web, and discussion with other fellow Canadians (Penguins and Eskimo included)


500 fps and 5 joules

As you understood I think, the limit is 500 fps OR 5 joules, not and. Which means you can fire a cannonball, if it is slowly enough ;-)

Also, it is not illegal, it is restricted. Which means you need to declare a airgun that doesn't comply with those limits, that's not a way to forbid you to own it, just a way for the government to know that you have a weapon in your possession that is considered powerful enough (whatever enough means by definition of the law).

For example, I had to register my Diana 35, because the velocity was higher than 500fps. Nothing wrong in that. I know have a nice Possession licence issued by the government.

Image
(no no it's not me.. no mustache :lol:)

Of course, by doing so with a gun you made yourself, you will attract attention to you. The decision to register the gun is in your hands. It also depend if officials in your region are very smart, or very stupid. By default I would fear about the later, but you never know... Canadian civil servants are so much smarter and nicer than French ones... you surely have no idea ;-) I know them both very well now so I can compare.

Something that is illegal in Canada is a replica of a gun after year 1898. That means something that look exactly like a real "modern" airgun (including airsoft guns) is prohibited. That's more than restricted, it's forbidden to buy one. There is an exception to that rule, people that own airsoft replica before 19XX (don't remember the exact date), they have a right to keep them. But you cannot buy any officially, the customs will seize them at the frontier. You can sell them outside Canada though, weirdly enough, but anything that goes out the frontier cannot come in anymore :-D
As for something you built yourself... it's very blury. You're not supposed to do that, you're supposed to buy it. So sale and import are forbidden and inforced. But if you made it (and I plan to do that too ;-) ), then who knows... I couldn't find any real answer, some day I'll call the Firearm officials and ask.


My advice would be... don't try to trick an official if you are "caught". You are supposed to know the law, and either the guy will be dumb and you will have the worst case scenario, or he will be smart so by trying to outsmart him... you will also have the worst case scenario ;-)
  • 0

User avatar
LeMaudit
Donating Member
Donating Member
 
Posts: 665
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:48 pm
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: warhead052 » Mon May 02, 2011 10:51 am

Demon, to be completely honest, be honest. Say that it is capable of over 500fps with certain ammo, but you dont use that specific type of ammo. I cant remember which thread I saw this on, but someone said they have a regular unpainted combustion for just incase the police show up asking about the noise. Think about it that way. I will try and find the thread.
  • 0


warhead052
Major General
Major General
 
Posts: 1769
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:41 pm
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: Demon » Mon May 02, 2011 12:57 pm

As you understood I think, the limit is 500 fps OR 5 joules, not and. Which means you can fire a cannonball, if it is slowly enough


It must be 500 fps AND 5 joules for you not to conterdict yourself if think.
A 40 fps cannonball could be going over 5 joules with no problem, and then slingshots and bows would be restricted firearms.

It does say 500 fps AND 5 joules on the canadian firearm center.

So the deal is that the weapon could be a restricted firearm even if it could not (depending of the ammo).

So yeah, low profile hidden in the closet.
  • 0

User avatar
Demon
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 743
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:46 am
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: LeMaudit » Mon May 02, 2011 2:14 pm

:? I'm afraid my frenchglish got in the way. Maybe we are saying exactly the same thing, but let me rephrase to be 100% clear:

The Canadian Firearms Program say:

Air guns that are firearms are air guns with both a high muzzle velocity (greater than 152.4 meters or 500 feet per second) and a high muzzle energy (greater than 5.7 joules or 4.2 foot-pounds).


Which means, an airgun is not considered as a firearm, thus not restricted or prohibited, it it is less than 500 fps (whatever energy) OR less than 4.2ft*lb (whatever the speed). The both is what's important here. It imply that you need to be over both limits to categorize your gun as a firearm, within the law's criteria for prohibited and restricted devices.
Just to be 100% sure, I've read the text in french which is my native language, and there's no ambiguity. Truth is it's pretty stupid because as I said if you manage to fire a cannonball slowly enough (<500fps), then you don't need to register your gun because it is NOT a firearm under Canadian law. For sure I will not the one that complain about that!

About your examples, bows have a special case in the Firearm act:

Crossbows that can be aimed and fired with one hand and crossbows with an overall length of 500 mm (about 19.68 inches) or less are prohibited. You cannot lawfully possess or acquire a prohibited crossbow.
You do not need a valid licence or registration certificate to possess any other type of bow, including a crossbow that is longer than 500 mm and that requires the use of both hands.

So you see, a bow/crossbow can go over the legal limits of an airgun, as long as it is large enough.

As for slingshots, if they could go over 500fps, they would become restricted (unless they shoot plastic airshot pellets :lol:). But that's not the case right? A slingshot can't go that fast? :shock: Maybe that's a challenge for JoergS ;-)

Sorry if I stated the bloody obvious, I just didn't want to leave some ambiguity in what I said. Fell free to correct me of course if you think I misunderstood :D
  • 0

User avatar
LeMaudit
Donating Member
Donating Member
 
Posts: 665
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:48 pm
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: Demon » Mon May 02, 2011 3:16 pm

I perfectly understand
And french is my native language too

What you stated is exactly my problem. With the 4 gram projectile, I only go over one limit (the joule one) but if I use a 2 gram projectile, I go over both limits.

But as the law is not clear, I guess it's by default a restricted firearm.
And hence my anger.

:evil:

And when you talk about your cannon boulder fired at less then 500 FPS, it could be restricted if you used a 1/4 steel nut in a big enough wadding.

Why is the law not clear ?
  • 0

User avatar
Demon
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 743
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:46 am
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: LeMaudit » Mon May 02, 2011 3:39 pm

french is my native language too

8)

And when you talk about your cannon boulder fired at less then 500 FPS, it could be restricted if you used a 1/4 steel nut in a big enough wadding.


Sorry, but.. why's that? :?
The steel nut would go at less than 500 FPS, just as the wadding, and this is within the unrestricted limits.
  • 0

User avatar
LeMaudit
Donating Member
Donating Member
 
Posts: 665
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:48 pm
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Mon May 02, 2011 3:42 pm

LeMaudit wrote:(no no it's not me.. no mustache :lol:)


Aww... shame. I'm sure cultivating a moustache and a pipe will improve your machining skills :D
  • 0

User avatar
jackssmirkingrevenge
Donating Member
Donating Member
 
Posts: 24225
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:28 pm
Country: Holy See (Vatican City State) (va)
Reputation: 66

Sponsored

Sponsor
 


Unread postAuthor: Demon » Mon May 02, 2011 3:47 pm

Quote:
And when you talk about your cannon boulder fired at less then 500 FPS, it could be restricted if you used a 1/4 steel nut in a big enough wadding.


Sorry, but.. why's that?
The steel nut would go at less than 500 FPS, just as the wadding, and this is within the unrestricted limits.


Hem ...
As the 1/4 nut in its wadding is much more light the the big iron cannon ball, it will be expelled out of the barrel at an much higher speed. Just go try out on GGDT.

You get my point ?
  • 0

User avatar
Demon
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 743
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:46 am
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: LeMaudit » Mon May 02, 2011 4:02 pm

Aww... shame. I'm sure cultivating a moustache and a pipe will improve your machining skills


well, the truth is: currently I look like a bear (dixit the wife), too much hair everywhere... the potential mustache is virtually hidden in all that pilosity... but maybe you're right, just in case I will not shave until I finish this sabot thingy :lol:
As for the pipe, could be a nice machining project :-D

As the 1/4 nut in its wadding is much more light the the big iron cannon ball, it will will be expelled out of the barrel at an much higher speed. Just go try out on GGDT.


Yes of course. You mean if it was lighter with the same pressure. I was still applying the same pre-requisite, don't go faster than 500FPS... whatever you shoot. And it mean of course as you already said don't go upper than a certain pressure limit for a given ammo.

I don't think there's an easy way you know, because the law often forbid to do specific things, and rarely authorize specific ones. You have to play in the grey area for spudding, as the people that wrote the laws really have no idea about what a spudgun is capable of. The moment they are aware of that (or the day a stupid shoot his eye out), then a new exception will appear in the law, that forbid even more. Sad, but let's have fun while we can :-D
  • 0

User avatar
LeMaudit
Donating Member
Donating Member
 
Posts: 665
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:48 pm
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: Demon » Mon May 02, 2011 6:15 pm

I think I found how to solve this situation.

I am simply going to convert it to paintball !

Still going to 500 FPS, but that time they won't be able to say anything, as it's paintball !


So the final question is :
Will I need to keep a low profile if I convert it to shoot paintballs ?
  • 0

User avatar
Demon
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 743
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:46 am
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: warhead052 » Tue May 03, 2011 10:39 am

Demon, if you convert it to paintball, just dont make it obvious you are. Just do it quickly and no one will notice. Or just change out barrels?
  • 0


warhead052
Major General
Major General
 
Posts: 1769
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:41 pm
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: velocity3x » Tue May 03, 2011 11:39 am

LeMaudit wrote:I will not shave until I finish this sabot thingy :lol:


Obviously you're "Goal Oriented". I completely understand as I do the same thing. :lol:
  • 0

User avatar
velocity3x
Brigadier General
Brigadier General
 
Posts: 827
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:09 pm
Location: Yuma, Arizona
Country: United States (us)
Reputation: 7

Previous

Return to Pneumatic Cannon Discussion

Who is online

Registered users: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], MSNbot Media, Yahoo [Bot]

Reputation System ©'