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Airgun legal question

Post questions and info about pneumatic (compressed gas) powered cannons here. This includes discussion about valves, pipe types, compressors, alternate gas setups, and anything else relevant.
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Airgun legal question

Unread postAuthor: Demon » Sun May 01, 2011 5:25 pm

I live in Canada, and here airguns need a firearm license if they go over BOTH 500 fps and 5 joules.

The problem is that, after running some numbers trough GGDT, I discovered that my M82A1 (a replica, tough) generates 600 fps and 33 joules joules with a 30 grain projectile, all that @ 150 PSI.

BUT

The airgun in question is wadding-cartridge-loaded, so to try to trick the law, what if I use a 60 grain gram projectile instead ?
It would drop at 460 fps, even if the energy would go up to 40 joules.

So the question is : Even if I am able to go over the law, but I dont as the projectile speed is dependant of the projectile weight and air pressure put into the gun,
Does it makes of me a criminal ?


If I ever get "caught", I could provide my own ammunition for "them" to test, wich would be a 60 grain projectile instead of the 30 grain regular one.

And as such, an 500 fps w/.2 gram BB airsoft sniper could break the law IF a .12 gram BB was put into it.

So ... what ya'think ?
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Last edited by Demon on Sun May 01, 2011 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postAuthor: Gun Freak » Sun May 01, 2011 5:32 pm

I think your logic is reasonable. Go for it.
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Unread postAuthor: Demon » Sun May 01, 2011 5:35 pm

Yeah ... but it seems too easy.

And if ever i get "caught", how would they test fire a gun they don't even know how it works ?

I really don't want to end like the australian dude that got in jail for it.
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Sun May 01, 2011 7:30 pm

I wouldn't count on them being cooperative...

all that @ 150 PSI
try to prove that you haven't used it at 200 pressures higher than 150 psi

don't get caught in the first place...
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Unread postAuthor: Lockednloaded » Sun May 01, 2011 7:42 pm

I feel like we have some canadian members who regularly go above and beyond "crossing the legal line" with hybrids and magic powder launchers. Just be smart, you shouldn't attract too much attention if you dont do anying stupid
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Unread postAuthor: Demon » Sun May 01, 2011 7:43 pm

How could they know ? There is'nt any pressure gauge on the gun, nor on the pump.

So could, (I know that I probably won't get caught, but if ever) get out of it fine just by supplying them an heavier round, if they want to test it dropping the velocity under 500 fps ?

Its the main reason of this thread. I do have over the FPS limit air cannon, but i want to know if i can take out that M82A1 airgun free minded.

I just want to know wether I must be careful not to be noticed by any authority, or if I can simply live without the fear of getting busted.

Could anyone give me an answer, or just an hint about it ?
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Sun May 01, 2011 8:44 pm

How could they know ?
&
get out of it fine just by supplying them an heavier round, if they want to test it dropping the velocity under 500 fps


you might as well tell them that you used it at 50 psi :-D
Get my point??
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Unread postAuthor: mobile chernobyl » Sun May 01, 2011 8:57 pm

Canada has no laws its run by Eskimo's and penguins - So you should be safe! :wink:
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Unread postAuthor: Demon » Sun May 01, 2011 9:03 pm

Just a pic of the said gun.
Entirely functional as it is, but the external is still WIP.

So, POLAND_SPUD, what you think ?
They won't believe me if I say I used it at a legal air pressure, even if I really did ?

I don't think I will be able to get a straight answer because there is'nt. If I know and use the correct air pressure and correct ammunition for the said air pressure, they can't touch me bro'.

The above statement is a little bit like Utopia, but
Can anybody give me the true answer, and not an advice ?
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Sun May 01, 2011 9:31 pm

They won't believe me if I say I used it at a legal air pressure, even if I really did
why would they ??



If it had a pop-off valve set to 120 psi or so then maybe they would believe you... but don't count on that - assume the worst case scenario
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Unread postAuthor: Demon » Sun May 01, 2011 10:39 pm

So then that's it.

Even with a 120 PSI pop-off I could go over 500 FPS if I shot an airsoft BB.

So that gun won't ever see any light other then the one of the workshop.
(I will complete it even tough, just for fun).
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Unread postAuthor: Demon » Mon May 02, 2011 7:24 am

If it had a pop-off valve set to 120 psi or so then maybe they would believe you...


I've just realised there is already a pop-off on the system. The hose without barb collet will leak air past 120 PSI.

If then I only kept 4 gram cartridges, I would technically be in legality.

So then, can we considered that the gun would'nt be illegal, but that the 2 gram cartridge would be ?

Then the 2 gram cartridge would be illegal, and not the gun if used with the 4 gram cartridge. So if I don't own any 2 gram cartridge, I am safe.

I am probably wrong tough. They won't give a darn about my excuses.

Do you still all hold the same opinion ?
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Unread postAuthor: Doctore » Mon May 02, 2011 8:32 am

haha
In serbia you can buy 300 m/s air rifle without a firearm licence
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Unread postAuthor: Demon » Mon May 02, 2011 9:01 am

Good thing for you.



The fact that that gun is illegal, and therefore that I can't take it out to the field takes a lot interest out of it.

But I won't stop for that. I am going to try to reach the french HoF, even if I will never shoot to its true extent :(
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Mon May 02, 2011 10:11 am

It's in your interest to look up the actual wording of the legislation.

In the UK, an airgun that is capable of over 12 ft/lbs is considered to be a firearm needing a license. This means that if you're using it with medium weight pellets at 11.5 ft/lbs but the police test it with heavyweight pellets and it gives 12.05 ft/lbs, technically you're breaking the law if you don't have a license.

Homemade airguns are a grey area because there's no manufacturer's specification saying what pressure you should fill it to and what projectiles to use. I think the best advice is simply keep a low profile and stay out of trouble. Unless you're shooting at your neighbour's pets, or carrying a "realistic" launcher in public in a threatening manner, the police are unlikely to be interested.
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