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solenoid to pilot a hammer valve

Post questions and info about pneumatic (compressed gas) powered cannons here. This includes discussion about valves, pipe types, compressors, alternate gas setups, and anything else relevant.
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solenoid to pilot a hammer valve

Unread postAuthor: wyz2285 » Sun Oct 16, 2011 3:27 pm

I have found a topic about making a valve simular to a Baikal black bird airgun, I thought it was a good valve idea as I have a T from a push to connect air fitting, with a o-rings of 6mm in dia, perfect for a 6mm out dia steel tube.
Anyway, I was thinking about using a solenoid to pilot the valve, as it´s easy to open (somewhere around 3kg to open: hammer, return spring for the valve and hammer and friction between the valve and the o-rings), but I have made some coilguns, and I needed 1000uf 330v to shot a steel nail, for this gun I´m planing using only 12v battery from rc planes, is that possible to power a coil to pilot the valve? if it does, what´s the size of the coil I need?
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valve.png
the coil need to power the hammer, return spring for the valve and hammer and friction between the valve and the o-rings, all I need is 3 kg max
valve.png (17.47 KiB) Viewed 2891 times
IMG349.jpg
the valve, still need to find a right size spring
CpTn_lAw wrote::D "yay, me wanna make big multishot pnoob with 1000 psi foot pump compressor using diamond as main material. Do you think wet bread make good sealant? " :D
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Unread postAuthor: Gun Freak » Sun Oct 16, 2011 3:38 pm

I don't quite get how the valve works... Are the exhaust ports exposed to the chamber when the hammer is pushed? Seems like a lot of dead volume.
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Unread postAuthor: wyz2285 » Sun Oct 16, 2011 3:57 pm

Yes the valve opens when the exhaust hole get in to the chamber(witch also will push a bb), not too much dead space, at least it won't matter much to the power as I will use high pressure. Back to my question, how am I going to make the solenoid hammer? I choose electric because I would have a chance of making a selection fire bb gun
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CpTn_lAw wrote::D "yay, me wanna make big multishot pnoob with 1000 psi foot pump compressor using diamond as main material. Do you think wet bread make good sealant? " :D
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Unread postAuthor: Gun Freak » Sun Oct 16, 2011 4:40 pm

3kg seems like a lot of force... I'm not sure about the power of solenoids, but it sounds like you would need a pretty heavy duty one to push 3kg.
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:19 pm

The idea looks familiar ;)

I had revisited the idea here.

3kg seems like a lot of force... I'm not sure about the power of solenoids, but it sounds like you would need a pretty heavy duty one to push 3kg.


I think the crucial idea is that it's not pushing directly but acting as a hammer, therefore accelerating a mass which then impacts the valve with a lot more force than if it was pushing directly, this is the concept I had missed.
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Unread postAuthor: wyz2285 » Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:16 am

ok 3 kg maybe to much, 1.5 kg probably enough, and yes I only need a hit from the hammer, not continue pushing. So any suggestions?
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CpTn_lAw wrote::D "yay, me wanna make big multishot pnoob with 1000 psi foot pump compressor using diamond as main material. Do you think wet bread make good sealant? " :D
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Unread postAuthor: Crna Legija » Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:35 am

maybe something like this
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Unread postAuthor: wyz2285 » Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:07 am

That will work for sure, but too expensive, and i only need the coil, what's the sizs of coil that thing uses?
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CpTn_lAw wrote::D "yay, me wanna make big multishot pnoob with 1000 psi foot pump compressor using diamond as main material. Do you think wet bread make good sealant? " :D
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Unread postAuthor: Crna Legija » Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:39 am

Pretty big, I have one different brand, coil is around 60mm OD and 85mm long.

Im sure Tech can shed some light on them.
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:41 am

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-12V-4 ... 1c1fbb95a5

I'm sure you can find something cheap at your local automotive parts store.

Combine it with a 12V battery pack and a momentary switch and you're sailing.
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Unread postAuthor: Crna Legija » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:01 am

that one jsr linked uses a motor and screw to move in/out and is slow not like a hammer.


what about
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwtqlYswMcg[/youtube]

you can replace the ram type think one his one with a eccentric cam

edit, a even better one by Leonardo da Vinci
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=580HlefXYUo[/youtube][/GVideo]
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:27 am

Crna Legija wrote:that one jsr linked uses a motor and screw to move in/out and is slow not like a hammer.


Fine, this one then ;) http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-12V-Push-Typ ... 415e31e686
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Unread postAuthor: wyz2285 » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:28 am

How many amp I need to power a coil like that? I don't want to use a motor because it's slower than a coil powered hammer
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CpTn_lAw wrote::D "yay, me wanna make big multishot pnoob with 1000 psi foot pump compressor using diamond as main material. Do you think wet bread make good sealant? " :D
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:08 am

I would say a typical RC model/airsoft gun battery pack should give you enough juice to drive a hammer with enough force.
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Unread postAuthor: wyz2285 » Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:25 am

as i don't need the power to shot a nail, i think i can use a smaller coil, 4cm long 4cm od maybe? What type of coil should i use? Thinner the better in this case right?
Fine, this one then http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-12V-Push-Typ ... -Electroma gnet-Actuator-10mm-0-8N-Holding-/280753202822?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&ha sh=item415e31e686

looks like that one works :P now I have to talk to my dad about it :| holp it's strong enough
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CpTn_lAw wrote::D "yay, me wanna make big multishot pnoob with 1000 psi foot pump compressor using diamond as main material. Do you think wet bread make good sealant? " :D
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