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Sprinkler Valve using another sprinkler Valve as a Pilot?

Post questions and info about pneumatic (compressed gas) powered cannons here. This includes discussion about valves, pipe types, compressors, alternate gas setups, and anything else relevant.
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Sprinkler Valve using another sprinkler Valve as a Pilot?

Unread postAuthor: NP Carling26 » Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:48 pm

I am in the process of designing my next spud gun. I've learned a lot from my first one I built last summer and from these forums, but I am coming to ask for the expertise from you forum members. My first one was a pneumatic spud gun control by a 1" orbit sprinkler valve, non modified electric control. I absolutely love firing it electrically because it allows me to run a remote switch and simply press a button to release it, however, I know the pneumatically opening the valve is quicker. So here's the question. I was thinking for my next spud gun I would buy a 1 1/2 (possibly two, price isn't too much of a problem) inch valve, and modify it to operate pneumatically, except instead of hooking a blow gun up, I hook up a 3/4" sprinkler valve as the pilot valve and operate that electrically. Has anyone done this before? Does it sound overly complicated, or am I missing something? Feedback is appreciated. Thanks.
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:26 pm

Can be done and has been done, you'll probably get better performance than if it was modded with a blowgun pilot due to the superior flow.
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Unread postAuthor: evanmcorleytv » Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:10 pm

Actually, for best results with large sprinkler valves, the best way to go is to use a 1/4 inch or 1/2 inch QEV (piloted by a blowgun) to pilot the sprinkler valve
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Last edited by evanmcorleytv on Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Unread postAuthor: warhead052 » Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:46 pm

Evan, Jack has been around longer than you, and he knows a bit more about this stuff than you. Not everything can work with quick exhaust valves. Not shooting you down, just saying.


NP, You can do it, but I wouldn't recommend it. I would recommend a 1/2" ball valve exhaust for a 1 1/2" or 2" sprinkler valve.
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Unread postAuthor: evanmcorleytv » Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:55 pm

warhead052 wrote:Evan, Jack has been around longer than you, and he knows a bit more about this stuff than you. Not everything can work with quick exhaust valves. Not shooting you down, just saying.


NP, You can do it, but I wouldn't recommend it. I would recommend a 1/2" ball valve exhaust for a 1 1/2" or 2" sprinkler valve.


Well, considering that I've used them before, and have been building spudguns since FALL OF 2008, I believe that I DO in fact know what I'm talking about.
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Unread postAuthor: MrCrowley » Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:29 pm

evanmcorleytv wrote:Actually, for best results with large sprinkler valves, the best way to go is to use a 1/4 inch or 1/2 inch QEV (piloted by a blowgun) to pilot the sprinkler valve
To be honest, I doubt there would be much performance difference, either way, in using a 1/2" QEV instead of a 3/4" sprinkler valve to pilot the large valve

@OP,
I used a 1" sprinkler valve to pilot a 2" sprinkler valve here. It's definitely overkill, a 1/2" QEV or 3/4" sprinkler valve will do.

The reason I suggest those valves instead of a ball valve is purely because you can still use a blowgun as the trigger whereas with a ball valve (a 1/2" one would be fine piloting a 1.5" valve) you have an awkward handle which makes aiming difficult. In your case, you can't use a ball valve as you wanted it electrically actuated; which would be perfectly fine instead of a blowgun.
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Unread postAuthor: jakethebeast » Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:47 pm

Warhead, whats the difference in that who has been here longer? You are true in the case that JSR knows ALOT of spudguns, especially mini hybrids, but still i think evan is right, QEV would be über, but i think that second sprinkler valve would not be bad eighter.

i can admit that i have NEVER seen a sprinkler valve in nature, but i have been reading this forum for like 4-5 years, so i basically know how they work and how you can mod it. Im not saying that your ideas are not good, many use ball valve in their sprinklers, and they work, but using another sprinkler would alloy you to use it electrically, since it's used as pilot it really doesn't matter.

I can admit that i have very little experience in spudguns, i have had few semi-large combustions and builded few pneumatics, along with few hybrids, in tyhat order. And never posted any to this forum, cause im saving my first gun-post.

I think JSR will think this like me. When i eventually post my first gun here in abouit few months, youll all go like "WOOT?!" em i right JSR?

BUT sorry for offtopic, i just wanted to tell you what i think about those kind of comments''s, this forum will never get to its best if people think like that. I think you should respect anyone in here as equal.

EDIT: and sorry for all typo's, im VERY tired...
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Unread postAuthor: evanmcorleytv » Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:05 pm

MrCrowley wrote:
evanmcorleytv wrote:Actually, for best results with large sprinkler valves, the best way to go is to use a 1/4 inch or 1/2 inch QEV (piloted by a blowgun) to pilot the sprinkler valve
To be honest, I doubt there would be much performance difference, either way, in using a 1/2" QEV instead of a 3/4" sprinkler valve to pilot the large valve

@OP,
I used a 1" sprinkler valve to pilot a 2" sprinkler valve here. It's definitely overkill, a 1/2" QEV or 3/4" sprinkler valve will do.

The reason I suggest those valves instead of a ball valve is purely because you can still use a blowgun as the trigger whereas with a ball valve (a 1/2" one would be fine piloting a 1.5" valve) you have an awkward handle which makes aiming difficult. In your case, you can't use a ball valve as you wanted it electrically actuated; which would be perfectly fine instead of a blowgun.


Thank you. But after testing my Mauler with various pilots, a 1/4 inch QEV (Gort suggested it) ended up being the BEST. He also said exactly what you said. He used to use larger QEV's, but ended up using a 1/4 inch, and saw no power difference from the larger QEV's. He also compared QEV's to sprinkler valves, and saw that QEV's were actually FAR superior to the sprinkler valves. I also used methods similar to a blowgun, and saw that they were extremely inefficient. A 1/4 inch QEV from McMaster with a hose leading to the blowgun would probably be the best thing for your cannon, plus, IT'S CHEAP haha, that always helps!
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Unread postAuthor: MrCrowley » Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:12 pm

I have a feeling GGDT probably agrees with you and Shaun about the 1/4" QEV and even if it isn't quite as good, I doubt it would effect performance noticeably.

Anyway, the OP wants to use electric actuation so unless he can find a QEV with a solenoid, or is able to use another solenoid on the QEV, he may as well stick to the 3/4" sprinkler valve.
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Unread postAuthor: D_Hall » Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:01 pm

My own implementation of the concept... A blowgun piloting a 1" piloting a 2".

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Unread postAuthor: NP Carling26 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:50 pm

D_Hall wrote:My own implementation of the concept... A blowgun piloting a 1" piloting a 2".

Image


That's almost exactly what I'm looking for minus the blow gun. How did you attach the 1" pilot to the 2" main?
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Unread postAuthor: D_Hall » Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:08 pm

I cut an irregular groove into the solenoid boss on the 2" valve, then used an epoxy formulated for plastics to glue the 1" valve to the solenoid boss. Note that the groove's function was to provide a mechanical connection in the event that the epoxy didn't simply bond well enough to the plastics.
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Unread postAuthor: jrrdw » Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:55 pm

Seems to me the more valve's, twist, turns and dead air in between the pressurized pilot and the port exit the longer it will take to vent the chamber, Yes? No?

The faster valve's should have a shorter distance and less dead air to move, Yes? No?

Brilliant deductive reasoning? Common sense? Getting lucky?
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Unread postAuthor: NP Carling26 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:36 pm

I was looking at using this as my main valve: http://www.amazon.com/Orbit-57026-Autom ... B0040QWKSA

And this as my pilot: http://www.amazon.com/Orbit-57100-4-Inc ... 363&sr=1-1

However, for the main one, what is that piece of plastic on the top? Can it be removed, or does it interfere with modifying the valve?
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Unread postAuthor: D_Hall » Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:07 pm

NP Carling26 wrote:I was looking at using this as my main valve: http://www.amazon.com/Orbit-57026-Autom ... B0040QWKSA

And this as my pilot: http://www.amazon.com/Orbit-57100-4-Inc ... 363&sr=1-1

However, for the main one, what is that piece of plastic on the top? Can it be removed, or does it interfere with modifying the valve?


D'oh! That's the same valve I used. The piece on the top is the flow control. Unscrew the black part. Throw the black part away. Trim the remaining stem and prep it as per previous post. Plug the solenoid port, obviously.
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