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"Cloud Coaxial" idea

Post questions and info about pneumatic (compressed gas) powered cannons here. This includes discussion about valves, pipe types, compressors, alternate gas setups, and anything else relevant.
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"Cloud Coaxial" idea

Unread postAuthor: dajoro » Tue Apr 01, 2014 3:28 pm

I haven't been able to search recently so I'll ask instead. Has the concept of filling the chamber of a coaxial half-full of round ammo and made a cloud coaxial?. A c/b ratio of 20 to 1 or something for burst shots , I figure it may only work easily if at all with airsoft bb's , but hey I'm stuck waiting on another project so I'll try something futile. :roll:
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Re: "Cloud Coaxial" idea

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:00 pm

I tried this a very long time ago without much success. What did work was putting a cloud chamber between the coaxial piston and the barrel: airsoft-pellet-database/topic11314.html

Image



It gives a nice burst, more effective that simply loading multiple BBs in the barrel - and at 400 psi, more than enough energy to push 0.177" BBs straight through a soup tin.
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Re: "Cloud Coaxial" idea

Unread postAuthor: dajoro » Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:33 pm

So , no way to simply use a standard coaxial with bigger chamber? Not enough flow of bb's with air?

I read some of your topic about the barrel and mag. being parallel each other . I think that could be fit inside a 3/4" pipe and used inside a larger pipe . Still a coaxial outside , burst fire barrel inside .
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Re: "Cloud Coaxial" idea

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:21 pm

The basic problem is lack of agitation, unless you're using low density projectiles like airsoft BBs it's unlikely that the projectiles will be picked up before the chamber is emptied.

Still a coaxial outside , burst fire barrel inside


That should work.
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Re: "Cloud Coaxial" idea

Unread postAuthor: dajoro » Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:29 pm

Thanks , I'll try that configuration just to say I made burst fire pistol! The novelty of it may be gone before it gets built though, I know any bbmg is weaker than a single shot. Still a build-challenge to myself and reason to spray bb's as if they're free.

ps. - jack , was the issue(s) with the bend from the mag. to barrel or what happened with that one ?
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Re: "Cloud Coaxial" idea

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:10 am

dajoro wrote:Thanks , I'll try that configuration just to say I made burst fire pistol! The novelty of it may be gone before it gets built though, I know any bbmg is weaker than a single shot. Still a build-challenge to myself and reason to spray bb's as if they're free.


Not really weaker, you're just getting more bang for your buck ;)

jack , was the issue(s) with the bend from the mag. to barrel or what happened with that one ?


I have lots of issues, which one in particular are you referring to?
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Re: "Cloud Coaxial" idea

Unread postAuthor: dajoro » Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:56 am

hehe - wasn't meaning to get into personal issues! I'm thinking of a project of yours that had a barrel and tube mag. straight parallel to each other. I think I read you had some issues with feeding ammo around the "BEND" at the barrel's breech , the ammo had to turn 180 degrees.
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Re: "Cloud Coaxial" idea

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Re: "Cloud Coaxial" idea

Unread postAuthor: dajoro » Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:53 am

So this is my "re-rendering " of your idea. Standard coaxial but the "barrel " actually holds your barrel/mag. combo. I do have soft copper for the mag. tube so the 90* bend at the breech can be fairly uniform. ( I didn't draw in the epoxy plug at the sealing face ,just assume it's loaded with epoxy !)
IMG_20140402_074207.jpg
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Re: "Cloud Coaxial" idea

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:47 pm

dajoro wrote:I think I read you had some issues with feeding ammo around the "BEND" at the barrel's breech , the ammo had to turn 180 degrees.


This one?

airsoft-pellet-database/topic21851.html

IIRC the issue was with the detent, not the bend. In your case, you wouldn't need one.

What seems to affect power with detent mechanisms is how quickly the next round follows the first into the breech, because effectively the delay between one projectile fiting and the next one sticking in the detent is the "valve dwell time".
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Re: "Cloud Coaxial" idea

Unread postAuthor: dajoro » Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:59 pm

I'm starting to think you've "been there, done that" with everything to do with pressure and projectiles. :shock: I should have started this addiction years ago!

No that's not the project , the barrel and mag were actually laying side by side and I thought the topic was more recent . This may be my next project , before so many others get started. I have to get more time off for building! :D
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Re: "Cloud Coaxial" idea

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:37 am

dajoro wrote:I'm starting to think you've "been there, done that" with everything to do with pressure and projectiles. :shock: I should have started this addiction years ago!


Well, this has been my major passion along with chasing skirts for more than 15 years, and only the latter interest has waned considerably. I apologize if it sometimes comes off as "JSR did it" :roll:

No that's not the project , the barrel and mag were actually laying side by side and I thought the topic was more recent . This may be my next project , before so many others get started. I have to get more time off for building! :D


Hmmm... nope, can't recall. Maybe it was by another member?
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Re: "Cloud Coaxial" idea

Unread postAuthor: dajoro » Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:54 pm

""IIRC the issue was with the detent, not the bend. In your case, you wouldn't need one.""

WHAT? why I no use detent !? The magnet detent is very important to control ball drop.I suppose it also adds a slight resistance to the ball in breech , just like a mecanical detent would . Of course, that only effects steel balls. I could re-design the device to accept plastic balls , lead balls or the customers required balls of choice.
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Re: "Cloud Coaxial" idea

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:47 am

dajoro wrote:WHAT? why I no use detent !? The magnet detent is very important to control ball drop.I suppose it also adds a slight resistance to the ball in breech , just like a mecanical detent would . Of course, that only effects steel balls. I could re-design the device to accept plastic balls , lead balls or the customers required balls of choice.


A magnet detent is fine, it was the o-ring seal detent that was causing the issues.

Also, customers? Beware liability issues if you want to turn this into a commercial proposition.
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Re: "Cloud Coaxial" idea

Unread postAuthor: dajoro » Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:47 am

Please accept my apology , I was just joking about customers!
I do plan on trying out different strength magnets , so I'd be able to adjust the detent somewhat.
I'm building the barrel /magazine unit today , soon I'll have progress photos.
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Re: "Cloud Coaxial" idea

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:10 am

dajoro wrote:Please accept my apology , I was just joking about customers!


Nothing wrong with turning a profit from your projects ;) it's just important to be aware of the potential legal repercussions if someone does something stupid with them.
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