Login    Register
User Information
Username:
Password:
We are a free and open
community, all are welcome.
Click here to Register
Sponsored
Who is online

In total there are 39 users online :: 4 registered, 0 hidden and 35 guests


Most users ever online was 218 on Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:58 pm

Registered users: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], MSNbot Media, Yahoo [Bot] based on users active over the past 5 minutes

The Team
Administrators
Global Moderators
global_moderators.png CS

air nailer (to concrete)

Post questions and info about pneumatic (compressed gas) powered cannons here. This includes discussion about valves, pipe types, compressors, alternate gas setups, and anything else relevant.
Sponsored 
  • Author
    Message

Unread postAuthor: Freefall » Mon May 07, 2007 6:05 pm

Sure, you could add some new feature to it, or do something in a slightly different way, and get a patent for that. But simply making a bigger gun to drive a bigger nail isn't patent-worthy.
  • 0


Freefall
Specialist
Specialist
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:04 pm
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: ammosmoke » Mon May 07, 2007 6:07 pm

In response to rad...
Ok, for one, maybe he wants to make $300..DUH!! And two, nobody criticized you for your comment. And, the fact that you just joined will not be in you favor when you start flaming long time members, especially those that have been around way longer than me. And I tend to agree though, not many people would want to fire a nail into concrete just because. That was a good point. But please, don't flip out, you are acting like everyone here has called you a dumbass because we just felt like it.
  • 0

<img>http://www.speedtest.net/result/309559995.png</img>
User avatar
ammosmoke
Brigadier General
Brigadier General
 
Posts: 1011
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:57 am
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: paaiyan » Mon May 07, 2007 6:19 pm

rad14701 wrote:I don't know why I even bother trying to help you dumb-shits out...!!! Who the hell would simply drive a nail into concrete without having it first go through wood... Start searching the internet and find out the real facts and you'll find that I was, in fact, correct... I'm a fully grown man, not some mamma's boy that helps his mamma's friend... I see far too many posts in these forums where people who don't know crap about anything start postulating their ego driven ideas and, to be quite honest, you're just stupid freakin idiots... I have better things to do with my time than to be corrected by a bunch of snot-nosed idiots... Figure things out for yourselves... Oh, but you already know everything...


Dude, if you're gonna have an attitude like that, why don't you just go play in traffic or something? Don't insult someone for asking a question, and don't insult someone because they say you're wrong. You're acting like a small child who's mother didn't hold him enough.
  • 0

"Who ever said the pen was mightier than the sword, obviously, never encountered automatic weapons."
-General Douglass MacArthur

Read my dog's blog - Life of Kilo
User avatar
paaiyan
Major General
Major General
 
Posts: 2140
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 10:03 pm
Location: Central Oklahoma
Country: United States (us)
Reputation: 1

Unread postAuthor: spudthug » Mon May 07, 2007 9:36 pm

rad chill out freak..


on topic

ok guys so u dont think a coaxial alone would be able to drive a nail throguh wood into concrete?

just like a qev or ball valve as exhaust
2 inch chmaber with the whatevre size barrel for the nail and have a breach mech outside the gun where the barrel comes out

load the nail

it goes out the 1 foot extension coming out of the coax chamber ..

would that drive it in? be back in morning
  • 0

4" piston valved cannon-half done..( i spilt my cement...)

Hybrid- 75% done. need to build propane holder and drill/tap sparkplug hole..
User avatar
spudthug
Brigadier General
Brigadier General
 
Posts: 936
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:02 pm
Location: johnsonburg, Pa USA
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: Hawkeye » Mon May 07, 2007 9:48 pm

I'm not sure why you are asking us to help you secure a patent. Usually that's the type of thing you think up on your own.
I don't think Solar came on here and asked us to help him make some money.
  • 0


Hawkeye
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 462
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2007 7:12 pm
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: ammosmoke » Mon May 07, 2007 9:50 pm

I am still not sure that you would even need a barrel, all of the guns I've seen get by with none. Oh wait, you're saying you just want a cannon of some sort to do it... Ok,, in that case, I really don't know. Maybe you should run it through ggdt, and compare the numbers with some of the high power nailguns, and see what you get.
  • 0

<img>http://www.speedtest.net/result/309559995.png</img>
User avatar
ammosmoke
Brigadier General
Brigadier General
 
Posts: 1011
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:57 am
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: singularity » Mon May 07, 2007 10:45 pm

one thing to think about, if you are thinking about the same nails as me im pretty sure every time you go to fire in the nail the cannon will have a ton of kick back. when i stick my coaxial in to the ground an fire it (while im still holding onto it) it jumps 6in off the ground when i dry fire it. mines a 48in long 3in chamber 1in barrel coaxial i dont know how big your thinking about making this but what ever. i honestly think you would be better off with a solid propellant (im i allowed to say that) i remember seeing a "nailer" that used blank 9mm cartridges to hammer in nails (i dont remember how big the nails were either). i think if you plan on putting a nail through concrete wiht a pneumatic your going to need a massive chamber. t would probably be much more efficient to use some sort of blank shell
  • 0

be sure to check out my <a href="http://www.spudfiles.com/forums/ak-style-airsoft-vortex-gun-t10959.html">AK Styled Vortex Gun</a> and my <a href="http://www.spudfiles.com/forums/at-4-t9627.html">AT-4 Rocket</a>

upcoming projects... finalized clip fed BBMG and ball point pen sniper
User avatar
singularity
Brigadier General
Brigadier General
 
Posts: 982
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:53 pm
Location: someplace
Reputation: 0

Sponsored

Sponsor
 


Unread postAuthor: ammosmoke » Mon May 07, 2007 11:21 pm

He is trying to avoid cartriges though, as far as my understanding goes. They were costing too much in the long run.
  • 0

<img>http://www.speedtest.net/result/309559995.png</img>
User avatar
ammosmoke
Brigadier General
Brigadier General
 
Posts: 1011
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:57 am
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: jimmy101 » Tue May 08, 2007 10:23 am

ammosmoke wrote:Then how, do you think, companies come out with new air guns and drills and whatever else that is basically the same as the competition? All airguns are basically the same, but they all have something slightly different. Is this a patent violation? NO.


You should probably read up a bit on what a patent is.

Most things that have been around for a while (like electric drills, paintball guns etc) can not be patented on the basic concept. For example, you can't get a patent for "an automatic screwdriver that is powered by an electric motor" since that was patented so long ago that the patent has already expired.

What you can get a patent for is a widget that makes the old design better. Continuing with the electric drill example, the first company that put a "key-less" chuck on a drill would have patented the idea. Anybody can make an electric drill but they cannot put a key-less chuck on it without paying a royality to the patent holder. Eventually the key-less chuck patent expires and anybody can build and sell a drill with it.

For paintball guns the patent is not going to be for the basic concept; a gas driven, CO2 powered, semi-auto that fires a plastic ball filled with non-toxic paint. That patent has long since expired (if it ever existed).

What a manufacturer will patent on a new paintball gun is some small feature that might be advantagous. A quicker operating valve, a stronger connection between CO2 tank and gun, fewer moving parts or whatever. The paintball gun istelf is not patented, or patent protected. Just the particular widget is patented. Anybody can build and sell a paintball gun, they just can include the patented widget unless they pay the patent holder.
  • 0

Image

jimmy101
Lieutenant General
Lieutenant General
 
Posts: 3130
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:48 am
Location: Greenwood, Indiana
Country: United States (us)
Reputation: 7

Unread postAuthor: ammosmoke » Tue May 08, 2007 12:17 pm

Ok, so none of them have patents....? I am pretty sure I saw some stamped on my drill... But, you are right, I don't know much about patents.
  • 0

<img>http://www.speedtest.net/result/309559995.png</img>
User avatar
ammosmoke
Brigadier General
Brigadier General
 
Posts: 1011
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:57 am
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: Freefall » Tue May 08, 2007 12:52 pm

That the patent is stamped on the drill body is not an indication that the manufacturer owns the patent. They could be paying the patent holder to use that patent, or as jimmy mentioned, there may be some small non-obvious change that is patent-worthy.

Why are we still arguing patent law? The main issue here is that you've asked us to help you design something that already exists. If you want to build one for the sake of building one, go ahead, but:

1: without some new and novel feature, you're not going to get a patent on it.
2: For actual on-the-job use, your friend is better off just buying an appropriate nailgun off the shelf.

Take a close look at the existing designs. Here's what you have:
A coaxial-style airgun.
The "projectile" is a piston with a hardened rod to drive the nail.
After firing, this piston is returned to the starting position by a spring.

There are more details, such as the actual function of the trigger (probably a 3-way valve or similar), the mechanism used to feed the nails, and the mechanism used to prevent firing when not pressed against a surface. These differ from nailgun to nailgun, and it is these differing details that make each individual nailgun patent-worthy.

Overall, the basic operating premise is the same. So go ahead and make one that will drive hardened 2.5" nails through a 2x4 into concrete. Have fun making the piston, with its hardened pusher rod.
  • 0


Freefall
Specialist
Specialist
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:04 pm
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: ammosmoke » Tue May 08, 2007 6:46 pm

Was I arguing? I thought I was giving up, because you seemed to know more about patent law.
  • 0

<img>http://www.speedtest.net/result/309559995.png</img>
User avatar
ammosmoke
Brigadier General
Brigadier General
 
Posts: 1011
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:57 am
Reputation: 0

Previous

Return to Pneumatic Cannon Discussion

Who is online

Registered users: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], MSNbot Media, Yahoo [Bot]

Reputation System ©'