Login    Register
User Information
Username:
Password:
We are a free and open
community, all are welcome.
Click here to Register
Sponsored
Who is online

In total there are 40 users online :: 5 registered, 0 hidden and 35 guests


Most users ever online was 218 on Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:58 pm

Registered users: Bing [Bot], Exabot [Bot], Google [Bot], MSNbot Media, Yahoo [Bot] based on users active over the past 5 minutes

The Team
Administrators
Global Moderators
global_moderators.png CS

Another Silencer Question

A place to ask general spud cannon related questions.
Sponsored 
  • Author
    Message

Another Silencer Question

Unread postAuthor: Hubb » Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:24 am

In a thread, one said:
If you halve the chamber size but double the pressure, you'll get one huge amount more performance.


In another thread, someone else said:
Ideally it (a silencer) should be at least the volume of the chamber, especially in the case of pneumatics, but it you make it smaller it doesn't mean it won't be effective.


Assume one builds a pneumatic launcher with 3/4" barrel, 30" long. The chamber is made of a 1" dia pipe, 8" long and pressurized to 350psi.

Would the size of the silencer still need to be (ideally) the same volume as the chamber?
  • 0

Last edited by Hubb on Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Hubb
Major General
Major General
 
Posts: 2390
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 8:39 am
Location: South Georgia
Reputation: 2

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:43 am

If you halve the chamber size but double the pressure, you'll get one huge amount more performance.


I had done a little exercise with GGDT here for an imaginary 0.177" BB launcher to prove this, these were the numbers I got:

20 inch chamber at 50 psi - 406 feet per second

10 inch chamber at 100 psi - 537 feet per second

5 inch chamber at 200 psi - 684 feet per second

2.5 inch chamber at 400 psi - 830 feet per second

1.25 inch chamber at 800 psi - 958 feet per second

0.625 inch chamber at 1600 psi - 1006 feet per second

Remember this is the same quantity of air, distributed differently - and the results are quite compelling, especially considering that for a 100% increase in velocity, you get a 200% increase in muzzle energy, so in the first case, velocity increases by 32% but the energy increase would be in the order of (edit - thanks Ragnarok) 74%.

Regarding the silencer, for this launcher:

Assume one builds a pneumatic launcher with 3/4" barrel, 30" long. The chamber is made of a 1" dia pipe, 8" long and pressurized to 350psi.


The ideal volume of silencer + barrel would be equal to the volume the air in the chamber would displace if it was at atmospheric pressure.

In this case, chamber volume is 6.28 cubic inches, multiplied by (350/14.7) gives us 149.50 cubic inches. Barrel volume is 13.25 cubic inches, so total silencer volume should be around 136 cubic inches.

Say you're using 3" diameter pipe as a silencer body and having it coaxial with the barrel (assuming the barrel is 1" outer diameter), this would mean it has to be 20 inches long.

Again, this is the ideal volume, which is rarely practical in terms of size and bulk - in practice, I would say make it as big as you can afford.
  • 0

Last edited by jackssmirkingrevenge on Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
jackssmirkingrevenge
Donating Member
Donating Member
 
Posts: 24225
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:28 pm
Country: Holy See (Vatican City State) (va)
Reputation: 66

Unread postAuthor: Hubb » Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:51 am

Essentially, I would like to build one for my paintball marker, which has a low volume / high output chamber.

Chamber volume - .2in^3
Pressure - 800psi
barrel volume - 4.13in^3
displacement - 54.42in^3

Using a 2" sdr pipe, I would ideally need a length that is about 17" long?

...is rarely practical in terms of size and bulk...


I see that.
  • 0

User avatar
Hubb
Major General
Major General
 
Posts: 2390
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 8:39 am
Location: South Georgia
Reputation: 2

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:32 am

As I said, make it as big as you can afford - how about using say 3" pipe and having it off centre to the barrel, like the one on the DeLisle carbine:

Image

Image
  • 0

User avatar
jackssmirkingrevenge
Donating Member
Donating Member
 
Posts: 24225
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:28 pm
Country: Holy See (Vatican City State) (va)
Reputation: 66

Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:34 am

jackssmirkingrevenge wrote: and the results are quite compelling, especially considering that for a 100% increase in velocity, you get a 200% increase in muzzle energy, so in the first case, velocity increases by 32% but the energy increase would be in the order of 64%.


That's a 300% increase, it's not a case of doubling, it's squared. So a 32% increase means a 74% increase in energy.
  • 0

Does that thing kinda look like a big cat to you?
User avatar
Ragnarok
Chief of Staff
Chief of Staff
 
Posts: 5339
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:23 am
Location: The UK
Reputation: 8

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:41 am

Right you are, that'll teach me to bring math in 2 minutes before I have to leave for work.

For the 8 grain projectile in that imaginarry launcher, muzzle energies for the first two velocities are 2.93 and 5.12 ft/lbs respectively, an increase of 74.74%.
  • 0

User avatar
jackssmirkingrevenge
Donating Member
Donating Member
 
Posts: 24225
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:28 pm
Country: Holy See (Vatican City State) (va)
Reputation: 66

Return to General Spud Cannon Related

Who is online

Registered users: Bing [Bot], Exabot [Bot], Google [Bot], MSNbot Media, Yahoo [Bot]

Reputation System ©'