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Reducing recoil energy

A place to ask general spud cannon related questions.
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Unread postAuthor: Novacastrian » Sat Dec 22, 2007 8:57 pm

Gauge, length (oz. shot@MV) Gun weight (lbs.) Recoil energy (ft. lbs.)
.410 bore, 2.5" (1/2 at 1200) 5.5 7.1
.410 bore, 3" (11/16 at 1135) 5.5 10.5
28 gauge, 2.75" (3/4 at 1200) 6.0 12.8
20 gauge, 2.75" (7/8 at 1200) 6.5 16.1
20 gauge, 2.75" (1 at 1220) 6.5 21.0
20 gauge, 2.75" (1 1/8 at 1175) 6.5 25.0
20 gauge, 3" (1 1/4 at 1185) 6.5 31.0
16 gauge, 2.75" (1 at 1220) 7.0 21.5
16 gauge, 2.75" (1 1/8 at 1240) 7.0 27.6
12 gauge, 2.75" (1 at 1180) 7.5 17.3
12 gauge, 2.75" (1 1/8 at 1200) 7.5 23.0
12 gauge, 2.75" (1 1/4 at 1330) 7.5 32.0
12 gauge, 2.75" (1 1/2 at 1260) 7.5 45.0
12 gauge, 3" (1 5/8 at 1280) 7.5 52.0
12 gauge, 3" (1 7/8 at 1210) 8.75 54.0
10 gauge, 3.5" (2 1/4 at 1210) 10.5 62.9

Just as a comparison, that and i was bored :)
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Unread postAuthor: Eddbot » Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:42 am

Ragnarok wrote:I wouldn't routinely shoot something with a recoil over maybe two or three times that because then you start to risk developing a flinch,


if you don't want to develop a flinch, keep a low power pneumatic ready, and after you shoot the big gun, shoot the pneumo, presto! no flinch
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Unread postAuthor: Hailfire753 » Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:16 am

If you are willing to use a bipod, you could decrease the recoil immensely, or negate it completely. Take a careful look at the bipod in this picture of a .98 cal Barret sniper "Shoulder Cannon". (It is not as clear in this pic as here, but they wouldn't let me link to it.)

Image

Spikes. Transfer energy to the ground. The entire bolt and barrel of .50-.98 cal are also supported by heavy springs, but that would be difficult to impliment. I recomend a long stock with strong springs to achive the same effect.

EDIT: Fixed image
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Unread postAuthor: frankrede » Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:23 am

Hailfire753 wrote:If you are willing to use a bipod, you could decrease the recoil immensely, or negate it completely. Take a careful look at the bipod in this picture of a .98 cal Barret sniper "Shoulder Cannon". (It is not as clear in this pic as here, but they wouldn't let me link to it.)

Image

Spikes. Transfer energy to the ground. The entire bolt and barrel of .50-.98 cal are also supported by heavy springs, but that would be difficult to impliment. I recomend a long stock with strong springs to achive the same effect.

EDIT: Fixed image
Holy crap.
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Unread postAuthor: Hailfire753 » Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:30 am

:lol: Don't worry. If it misses by 3 feet of the target, the shockwave will only (still) turn the person's guts inside out. And seriously, if you read the page, the recoil is still too much for "human operation". But they are working on it. :twisted:
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Unread postAuthor: Novacastrian » Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:31 am

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Unread postAuthor: Eddbot » Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:33 am

that's a big gun, 25mm is an inch right? that's a big gun :shock: big gun...

edit: the NTW 20 reminds me of the halo snipers, probably because of that big bar around the scope, and the overall size compared to a human
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Unread postAuthor: Hailfire753 » Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:38 am

Almost an inch. 98% of an inch, hence .98 cal. I knew that would steal this thread. LOOK at the bipod, people. :lol:

EDIT: Whoops, double post. A video here tells that the muzzle break decreases recoil by 40%. A video here shows fireing without one. :lol:
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Unread postAuthor: Eddbot » Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:58 am

i don't know about you, but i would leave the muzzle break on
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Unread postAuthor: FordGtMan » Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:00 am

Man, when I saw that NTW 20, the first thought in my mind was HALO :)
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Unread postAuthor: Killjoy » Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:22 am

Oh my god I'm drooling...that rifle is beautiful.

Anyways, I built a hybrid a few months ago (still tuning it and sorting out problems) but I built a recoil absorbing stock using 1" pipe sleaved into 1 1/4" pipe with a heavy spring just to see if I could do it, and it worked very well.
But to further reduce the felt recoil you'll probably want a relatively heavy launcher and possibly a bi-pod.
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:32 am

Hailfire753 wrote:If you are willing to use a bipod, you could decrease the recoil immensely, or negate it completely.


The spikes on the bipod actually do very little for recoil, the bipod would have to be bolted securely to a hard surface to actually make a significant difference.

The key to reducing felt recoil is spreading it out, the Barrett does this by allowing the barrel to recoil separately. In the NTW-20, the whole action is free mounted in the stock:

Image

I would go with something similar in conjunction with a muzzle brake.
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Unread postAuthor: ALIHISGREAT » Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:38 am

you could use a long recoil system like on this steyr http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn46-e.htm where the barrel travells back a significant distance to help reduce recoil, it also has a massive muzzle brake.
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Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:29 am

Hailfire753 wrote:Almost an inch. 98% of an inch, hence .98 cal.

I'd just call it 25mm, rather than converting to inches.
I'm personally more interested in the computerised sights than the bipod.

@Eddbot: A low power pneumatic? You think I would keep those around here?
Besides, for safety reasons, there is never more than one loaded launcher on my "range" at any one time.
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Unread postAuthor: clide » Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:26 pm

bluerussetboy wrote:E = 1/2 (Wr / 32) ((Wb x MV + 4700 x Wp) / 7000 x Wr)2

Edit: thanks ragnarok for straightening out the formula


Should there also be a bracket around the 7000 x Wr?

Using that formula (with brackets around 7000 x Wr) and removing the powder term, I get above 50 ft-lbs for my horseshoe launcher. I'm a little guy around 130 lbs and the recoil is manageable. It hurt pretty bad without a proper pad, but I got a shotgun recoil pad and it no longer hurts, although you can still feel the kick pretty good. I wouldn't want to go much above that without something else to help with the recoil.
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