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A place to ask general spud cannon related questions.
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Unread postAuthor: Hotwired » Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:45 am

Yeah well, if we're caught with our cannons we're stuffed anyway so why not go the whole hog and make it exactly as you like.

OT: It occurs to me that the term shotgun is vastly more appropriate than rifle or cannon when talking about spudguns...
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Unread postAuthor: ALIHISGREAT » Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:55 pm

hmm maybe power to weight ratio? (but it would be easy to lie about that)
max range (would have to be catergorised by bore size of something)
accuracy (distance would have to be decided)


uuuuhh i dunno, maybe you should wait for the 'best shot competition' to end before we start planning the next :wink:
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Unread postAuthor: judgment_arms » Sat Jan 19, 2008 2:23 pm

I’m all for a contest of accuracy, got my rifler half done :).
Or perhaps a contest in (mechanical) rate of fire, (no BBMG/strafers/vortex/vogot/etc.) blowback, recoil, gas, Gatling, chain, etc. only

Hotwired, technically speaking anything with a bore bigger than .75dia. is cannon.
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Unread postAuthor: Hotwired » Sat Jan 19, 2008 2:39 pm

judgment_arms wrote:technically speaking anything with a bore bigger than .75dia. is cannon.

Hmm... A 10 gauge cannon.
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Unread postAuthor: judgment_arms » Sat Jan 19, 2008 2:57 pm

Hotwired, Most people shoot slugs, usually potato, there for it’s not a 10 gauge shotgun, but a .776cal light cannon, or perhaps a musket, or 19.7mm cannon (ever heard of the 20mm cannon?).

If it’s designed to shoot shot, then it’s a shot gun, up till about 1.5inch then it’s a cannon firing grape shot (which is at least .495dia), or a complete waste of shot…
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Unread postAuthor: Hotwired » Sat Jan 19, 2008 3:14 pm

Actually my point was that a 10 gauge shotgun has a larger bore than .75 by which reasoning it's a cannon.

Also, shotguns do fire slugs.
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Unread postAuthor: judgment_arms » Sat Jan 19, 2008 3:44 pm

Yes a 10GA’s bore is larger than .75, .776, I was thinking that the 20mm cannon was .75cal, it’s not, its .787cal.

So let me rephrase my first comment:
Technically a smoothbore with a bore diameter greater than 4GA (approximately 1 inch) is cannon. If the bore of a smoothbore is equal to, or less than 4GA, than it’s... it’s… say what the heck do you call it? Only a shot gun if designed to shoot shot, slugguns are rifled, muskets are a type of firearm, say maybe one of us should move this to a new topic.
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Unread postAuthor: Brian the brain » Sat Jan 19, 2008 3:45 pm

Most innovating seems to be the best way to go, since we can all profit from it.
Gun-look-a-like means anybody that can build small enough can put his creation inside an airsoft copy and you will not easily pick a winner when 8 entries look real.

Power to size or weight ratio seems a nice approach, but there is no way of checking.
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Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Sat Jan 19, 2008 4:35 pm

@Hotwired: I suspect we would get off more lightly (or more likely, less heavily) with something that doesn't resemble an AK47.
I suspect you'd get off better with Copperhead than I would with HEAL - and not just because it doesn't exceed the energy limits as brutally.

judgment_arms wrote:I’m all for a contest of accuracy, got my rifler half done :).
Or perhaps a contest in (mechanical) rate of fire, (no BBMG/strafers/vortex/vogot/etc.) blowback, recoil, gas, Gatling, chain, etc. only.

Well, accuracy is a bit of a tough one on most people, it's quite easy to fake, and then it's just numbers. You can equate a launcher to have accuracy to x MOA, and that's about it.

ROF is also seemingly good, but that's mostly only open to people with gas bottles and compressors.

@ALIH: Power to weight requires both an accurate muzzle energy - you'll need some good scales and a chronograph - and a truthful measurement of weight. Also, the weight is too dependant on material - and when you break it down, it's case of who can put most pressure in to the flimsiest cannon really:
"I put 1000 psi into a milk jug!!! I is teh dead winnorz!!!111one!!"

Max range also needs accurate measurements, and is even easier to fake than the accuracy. Maths says HEAL could put the right dart two miles, and although that could be the winner, I would have some difficulty finding the dart to prove that, and that would also be irresponsible and dangerous.
Basically, the better your chance of winning, the harder it is to prove.

I think BTB's suggestion that we just do the same old thing again is the best option. Most realistic could even fit in there, because that is innovation in a way.

But these are all suggestions I like, because there hasn't been one yet that my next project wouldn't be in with at least some chance of winning.
I'll tell you this much, if it all works:
- it will be completely UK legal but still powerful.
- have the size and look of a pistol.
- be quiet and accurate (think ~1" accuracy at ~20 yards)
- almost entirely self contained.
- 20 round magazine.
- Possibly best of all, with a small amount of external support (when I say small, think about a quarter of the size of an emergency compressor) it should be able to get rid of an entire magazine in a second.


And that's just what I'm telling you about - it's going to be one of my best ever designs.
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Unread postAuthor: ALIHISGREAT » Sat Jan 19, 2008 4:46 pm

"I put 1000 psi into a milk jug!!! I is teh dead winnorz!!!111one!!"


haha i would put 1000psi into a milk jug... if it was filled with epoxy with only a small 'chamber' bored out of the middle :D

i was just throwing around ideas really...

maybe a uksgc style design contest.... although CT might not take kindly to 'borrowing' the idea :?:
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Unread postAuthor: Carlman » Sat Jan 19, 2008 8:18 pm

Ragnarok wrote:
Carlman wrote:I am talkin about the major Spufiles contest, the one that is held once a year and is run by PCGUY

You're assuming that is annual (I have never heard PCGUY say it was), and surely PCGUY should be making the decision, so you've sort of jumped the gun here.


This thread led from a PM discussion between me and MrCrowley.

PS: sorry it took so long to respond, computer F#@ked up :D
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Unread postAuthor: DYI » Sat Jan 19, 2008 9:00 pm

Innovation is always good. There's always most impressive, but that gets really subjective really quickly. Size:Power ratio is easy to cheat on, and, as Rag stated, basically a case of who can put the most pressure in the lightest vessel with the fastest valve (which is essentially the goal of most spudding). Accuracy is too easy to cheat on, as is muzzle energy (and FEAR is essentially unassailable in that regard) and muzzle velocity. Cannons built with only power or velocity in mind are quickly relegated to storage after the whole "duD3z!!1!111one! i ju5t s40t li3k 100000006fpS w1t m4h hyb1rD!!!11111!!1 I aM t3h 0wnz0rz!!!1" moment.

I'm rather against the whole "firearm look-alike" part, because it would only strengthen the already negative connotations of spudding that a lot of people probably have.

And my undecorated steel monster can only do 7 000 ft/lbs :cry:
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Unread postAuthor: MrCrowley » Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:44 pm

Although i'm held back by extreme costs of PVC and other supplies, the most innovative and inventive is usually the best. :(

Or you could have a no theme contest, just vote for your favourite cannon, for what ever reasons you see fit. :)
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Unread postAuthor: schmanman » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:22 pm

hmmm, what about most devistating to the target?

In other words, most powerful, or highest ft/lbs of muzzle or projectile energy.
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Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:38 pm

schmanman wrote:In other words, most powerful, or highest ft/lbs of muzzle or projectile energy.

Which completely excludes people who live in towns, or don't have the money or space to build something like the SWAT, FEAR or the SCTBDC.

And again, that also needs accurate velocity measurements, which most people can't do.
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