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Air Cannons and School Teachers, and legal issues

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Air Cannons and School Teachers, and legal issues

Unread postAuthor: BrianMigs » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:02 pm

WARNING!: SKIP TO END FOR SHORT EXPLANATION

So in my wonderful school there is an elective called Inventions and Innovations I, and Inventions and Innovations II. This year they finally got enough people to put an Inventions II class together, so they threw us in with a bunch of kids from Inventions I.

Our class usually consists of building random projects, circuits, mini catapults, rube goldberg projects. Its a fun class, basically teaches kids to be able to walk into a hardware store for whatever they need.

So the Inventions I class had to build a device that would launch a marshmallow as far as possible. Imeediately kids start building catapults, trebuchets, ballista's, and other weird contraptions. My two freshmen friends Ira and Dylan decide to build an air cannon.

So I researched and helped them out a little. They started their's before mine, and finished after I did. Haha. They have the simple chamber, ball valve and barrel.

Today they decided they would go out and do a first test in the hallway, so I brought mine in to class as well.

We are both shooting out in the hall, just marshmallows, it was pretty fun. My teacher made us shoot at like 20 PSI :-)

I go back into the class with mine, ten minutes later my teacher walks back in.

She tells me that I need to keep the cannon in class, fix it, and then dismantle it when I am done. I gave her a blank look.

She then informed me that our in school officer had passed by, and told her our devices were illegal. Apparently because I told her I was bringing it in, and then she found out they were illegal in the great state of New Jersey, I need to take it apart, like completely.

My plan is to just unscrew everything and take it home. I dont think she should tell me that I need to keep it in school when I brought it in from home and gave her the heads up about it too, but then to tell me I need to take a saw to about 35$ worth of parts and a couple hours of time is just plain wrong.

Thank you for reading, I just needed to vent, and questions or comments, feel free!




SHORT EXPLANATION: I brought in my air cannon, and my friends built theirs in class. While testing in the hallway, school officer walks by, tells my teacher they are illegal, and now my teacher says when we are done using them, we need to saw them apart to make them fully inoperable. :D
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Unread postAuthor: brogdenlaxmiddie » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:13 pm

Tell her that the ATF does not constitute them as being illegal Did you cut it up already??
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Unread postAuthor: DYI » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:15 pm

As far as I know, the "great State of New Jersey" has no laws making muzzle loading, low powered air cannons illegal. Unless they are being used to fire incendiary/explosive/self propelled projectiles, or are made with the intent of being used as weapons/actually used as weapons, they aren't illegal. Unless they strongly resemble real firearms, I don't even think they'd be illegal in the UK, since they likely fall under the 12 ft/lb limit.

So check the laws online, but unless I've missed something awfully important about airgun laws in the U.S., your school officer is full of sh*t. And please, don't ever saw anything you built apart just because your teacher told you to.
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Unread postAuthor: bluerussetboy » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:18 pm

sounds pretty simple. don't make a big fuss. saw it apart. go home. check your local laws. save your money and make a better one. its jersey there are a lot of things illegal in jersey.

last time i went through jersey it was illegal to use your windshield wipers without your lights on.

always check with your local law enforcement and not online. it keeps you in good relations with the locals enforcement and prevents misunderstandings.

just ask the aussies here how they feel.
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Last edited by bluerussetboy on Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Unread postAuthor: Thursto » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:20 pm

bluerussetboy wrote:just ask the aussies here how they feel.


Hahaha we got mentioned, but yes our laws suck total ass over here, but if you havent sawing your cannon up allready why not say u have but u havent, and if your teacher asks for a picture, take one and photoshop it :)
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Unread postAuthor: Pilgrimman » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:21 pm

I would give my left nut to take a class like that! It's a shame you were "caught" even though what you were doing was legal. Oh well, just don't destroy the gun. Unscrew it, and take it home.
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Unread postAuthor: Carlman » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:23 pm

bluerussetboy wrote:just ask the aussies here how they feel.


ooooo i do hate aussie laws...


:D
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Unread postAuthor: Hotwired » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:28 pm

It all depends on how well you get on with the people legally responsible for you.

My cannon isn't a legit device but I still brought it to college and all the tutors for that day were perfectly fine with it.

Even went outside into a field beside the buildings to give one of them a demo.

It went in under the guise of a design project for the engineering course. Which it in fact was despite being designed and constructed before the project was officially started.
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Unread postAuthor: BrianMigs » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:30 pm

Am I missing something about Aussie's and laws? Are cannons illegal in Australia?

When I am done with it I plan to just take it out of her class at the end of the day. The janitors will hook me up with a quick entry. Lew, my javorite janitor, was having so much fun watching us shoot marshmallows down the hall.

Its not so much my teacher, but that Officer Glenn told her they were illegal. And she is the kind of person who has never had a parking ticket.

Does anyone know where I can find laws and statutes for air cannons?

As long as I dont make any APFSDS (Armor piercing fin stabilizing discarding sabot) rounds I am good right? Yeah, I got that just from memory! haha!

I'm cool............................. 8)
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Unread postAuthor: bluerussetboy » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:35 pm

btw: hollowpoint bullets are legal according to the ATF, but in jersey they will get you thrown in jail. another thing to consider is noise ordinances. being able to hear a car stereo from less than 25 ft away can get you a ticket in many areas here in the US.

ALWAYS KEEP A GOOD PRESENCE WITH THE POLICE
it really will help you in the long run growing up

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Last edited by bluerussetboy on Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Unread postAuthor: iknowmy3tables » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:43 pm

make a nice cut across the pipe a few inches away from any fittings then repair it at home with a coupler saying that you wanted the fittings for other purposes
but do check local laws New Jersey does have $hitty laws like the no self serve gas law
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Unread postAuthor: DYI » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:44 pm

As long as I dont make any APFSDS (Armor piercing fin stabilizing discarding sabot) rounds I am good right?


You can make all the APFSDS or APDS rounds you like for an air cannon, it still doesn't make it a firearm. Unless it's explosive, incendiary, or self propelled, it doesn't make the air cannon any more illegal.

What are the Jersey laws on muzzleloaders like?
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Unread postAuthor: bluerussetboy » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:50 pm

i don't remember what they are, but there are some blackpowder restrictions. years ago i ordered some pyrodex from cabelas and they weren't able to ship it while i was in jersey.
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Unread postAuthor: bluerussetboy » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:59 pm

maybe this will help

Firearm Definitions

Definitions


2C:39-1. Definitions. The following definitions apply to this chapter and to chapter 58:

a. "Antique firearm" means any firearm and "antique cannon" means a destructive device defined in paragraph (3) of subsection c. of this section, if the firearm or destructive device, as the case may be, is incapable of being fired or discharged, or which does not fire fixed ammunition, regardless of date of manufacture, or was manufactured before 1898 for which cartridge ammunition is not commercially available, and is possessed as a curiosity or ornament or for its historical significance or value.

b. "Deface" means to remove, deface, cover, alter or destroy the name of the maker, model designation, manufacturer's serial number or any other distinguishing identification mark or number on any firearm.

c. "Destructive device" means any device, instrument or object designed to explode or produce uncontrolled combustion, including (1) any explosive or incendiary bomb, mine or grenade; (2) any rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces or any missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter of an ounce; (3) any weapon capable of firing a projectile of a caliber greater than 60 caliber, except a shotgun or shotgun ammunition generally recognized as suitable for sporting purposes; (4) any Molotov cocktail or other device consisting of a breakable container containing flammable liquid and having a wick or similar device capable of being ignited. The term does not include any device manufactured for the purpose of illumination, distress signaling, line-throwing, safety or similar purposes.

d. "Dispose of" means to give, give away, lease, loan, keep for sale, offer, offer for sale, sell, transfer, or otherwise transfer possession.

e. "Explosive" means any chemical compound or mixture that is commonly used or is possessed for the purpose of producing an explosion and which contains any oxidizing and combustible materials or other ingredients in such proportions, quantities or packing that an ignition by fire, by friction, by concussion or by detonation of any part of the compound or mixture may cause such a sudden generation of highly heated gases that the resultant gaseous pressures are capable of producing destructive effects on contiguous objects. The term shall not include small arms ammunition, or explosives in the form prescribed by the official United States Pharmacopoeia.

f. "Firearm" means any handgun, rifle, shotgun, machine gun, automatic or semi-automatic rifle, or any gun, device or instrument in the nature of a weapon from which may be fired or ejected any solid projectable ball, slug, pellet, missile or bullet, or any gas, vapor or other noxious thing, by means of a cartridge or shell or by the action of an explosive or the igniting of flammable or explosive substances. It shall also include, without limitation, any firearm which is in the nature of an air gun, spring gun or pistol or other weapon of a similar nature in which the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, compressed or other gas or vapor, air or compressed air, or is ignited by compressed air, and ejecting a bullet or missile smaller than three-eighths of an inch in
diameter, with sufficient force to injure a person.


g. "Firearm silencer" means any instrument, attachment, weapon or appliance for causing the firing of any gun, revolver, pistol or other firearm to be silent, or intended to lessen or muffle the noise of the firing of any gun, revolver, pistol or other firearm.

h. "Gravity knife" means any knife which has a blade which is released from the handle or sheath thereof by the force of gravity or the application of centrifugal force.

i. "Machine gun" means any firearm, mechanism or instrument not requiring that the trigger be pressed for each shot and having a reservoir, belt or other means of storing and carrying ammunition which can be loaded into the firearm, mechanism or instrument and fired therefrom.

j. "Manufacturer" means any person who receives or obtains raw materials or parts and processes them into firearms or finished parts of firearms, except a person who exclusively processes grips, stocks and other nonmetal parts of firearms. The term does not include a person who repairs existing firearms or receives new and used raw materials or parts solely for the repair of existing firearms.

k. "Handgun" means any pistol, revolver or other firearm originally designed or manufactured to be fired by the use of a single hand.


l. "Retail dealer" means any person including a gunsmith, except a manufacturer or a wholesale dealer, who sells, transfers or assigns for a fee or profit any firearm or parts of firearms or ammunition which he has purchased or obtained with the intention, or for the purpose, of reselling or reassigning to persons who are reasonably understood to be the ultimate consumers, and includes any person who is engaged in the business of repairing firearms or who sells any firearm to satisfy a debt secured by the pledge of a firearm.

m. "Rifle" means any firearm designed to be fired from the shoulder and using the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic cartridge to fire a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.

n. "Shotgun" means any firearm designed to be fired from the shoulder and using the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shots or a single projectile for each pull of the trigger, or any firearm designed to be fired from the shoulder which does not fire fixed ammunition.

o. "Sawed-off shotgun" means any shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length measured from the breech to the muzzle, or a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length measured from the breech to the muzzle, or any firearm made from a rifle or a shotgun, whether by alteration, or otherwise, if such firearm as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches.

p. "Switchblade knife" means any knife or similar device which has a blade which opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in the handle of the knife.

q. "Superintendent" means the Superintendent of the State Police.

r. "Weapon" means anything readily capable of lethal use or of inflicting serious bodily injury. The term includes, but is not limited to, all (1) firearms, even though not loaded or lacking a clip or other component to render them immediately operable; (2) components which can be readily assembled into a weapon; (3) gravity knives, switchblade knives, daggers, dirks, stilettos, or other dangerous knives, billies, blackjacks, bludgeons, metal knuckles, sandclubs, slingshots, cesti or similar leather bands studded with metal filings or razor blades imbedded in wood; and (4) stun guns; and any weapon or other device which projects, releases, or emits tear gas or any other substance intended to produce temporary physical discomfort or permanent injury through being
vaporized or otherwise dispensed in the air.

s. "Wholesale dealer" means any person, except a manufacturer, who sells, transfers, or assigns firearms, or parts of firearms, to persons who are reasonably understood not to be the ultimate consumers, and includes persons who receive finished parts of firearms and assemble them into completed or partially completed firearms, in furtherance of such purpose, except that it shall not include those persons dealing exclusively in grips, stocks and other nonmetal parts of firearms.

t. "Stun gun" means any weapon or other device which emits an electrical charge or current intended to temporarily or permanently disable a person.

u. "Ballistic knife" means any weapon or other device capable of lethal use and which can propel a knife blade.

v. "Imitation firearm" means an object or device reasonably capable of being mistaken for a firearm.

w. "Assault firearm" means:

(1) The following firearms:

Algimec AGM1 type
Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder such as the "Street Sweeper" or "Striker 12"
Armalite AR-180 type
Australian Automatic Arms SAR
Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearms
Beretta AR-70 and BM59 semi-automatic firearms
Bushmaster Assault Rifle
Calico M-900 Assault carbine and M-900
CETME G3
Chartered Industries of Singapore SR-88 type
Colt AR-15 and CAR-15 series
Daewoo K-1, K-2, Max 1 and Max 2, AR 100 types
Demro TAC-1 carbine type
Encom MP-9 and MP-45 carbine types
FAMAS MAS223 types
FN-FAL, FN-LAR, or FN-FNC type semi-automatic firearms
Franchi SPAS 12 and LAW 12 shotguns
G3SA type
Galil type Heckler and Koch HK91, HK93, HK94, MP5, PSG-1
Intratec TEC 9 and 22 semi-automatic firearms
M1 carbine type
M14S type
MAC 10, MAC 11, MAC 11-9mm carbine type firearms
PJK M-68 carbine type
Plainfield Machine Company Carbine
Ruger K-Mini-14/5F and Mini-14/5RF
SIG AMT, SIG 550SP, SIG 551SP, SIG PE-57 types
SKS with detachable magazine type
Spectre Auto carbine type
Springfield Armory BM59 and SAR-48 type
Sterling MK-6, MK-7 and SAR types
Steyr A.U.G. semi-automatic firearms
USAS 12 semi-automatic type shotgun
Uzi type semi-automatic firearms
Valmet M62, M71S, M76, or M78 type semi-automatic firearms
Weaver Arm Nighthawk.

(2) Any firearm manufactured under any designation which is substantially identical to any of the firearms listed above.

(3) A semi-automatic shotgun with either a magazine capacity exceeding six rounds, a pistol grip, or a folding stock.

(4) A semi-automatic rifle with a fixed magazine capacity exceeding 15 rounds.

(5) A part or combination of parts designed or intended to convert a firearm into an assault firearm, or any combination of parts from which an assault firearm may be readily assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person.

x. "Semi-automatic" means a firearm which fires a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger and is self-reloading or automatically chambers a round, cartridge, or bullet.

y. "Large capacity ammunition magazine" means a box, drum, tube or other container which is capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition to be fed continuously and directly therefrom into a semi-automatic firearm.

z. "Pistol grip" means a well-defined handle, similar to that found on a handgun, that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, and which permits the shotgun to be held and fired with one hand.

Amended 1981,c.363,s.1; 1983,c.479,s.1; 1985,c.360,s.1; 1987,c.228,s.1; 1989,c.120,s.1;
1990,c.32,s.1.


http://www.njguns.com/laws.htm
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Unread postAuthor: bluerussetboy » Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:07 pm

another thing to consider

NJ State Police website wrote:The New Jersey State Police is not authorized to provide legal advice to private parties.

For informational purposes only, New Jersey firearm laws and procedures may be derived from state and federal statutes, state and federal administrative codes, New Jersey Attorney General guidelines and case law. Please note that this information and these references may not be exhaustive in addressing your issue.

The state criminal statutes sections that pertain to firearms can be found in New Jersey Title 2C, Chapter 39. Firearms, Other Dangerous Weapons and Instruments Of Crime (N.J.S. 2C:39-1 et seq.) and Chapter 58. Licensing and Other Provisions Relating to Firearms (N.J.S. 2C:58-1 et seq.).

The state administrative codes sections that pertain to firearms can be found in New Jersey Administrative Code Title 13, Chapter 54. Firearms and Weapons (N.J.A.C. 13:54-1 et seq.).

On August 19, 1996, the New Jersey State Attorney General issued guidelines regarding the "Substantially Identical" provision in the State's assault firearms laws, N.J.S. 2C:39-1w(2). These guidelines define, in addition to the firearms specifically enumerated as assault firearms in N.J.S. 2C:39-1w(1), those firearms which are manufactured under any designation which are also classified as assault firearms.

Because the New Jersey State Police is not authorized to provide legal advice to private parties, you may wish to consult with independent legal counsel or conduct your own research.

Again, please note that this information and these references may not be exhaustive in addressing your issue. As a courtesy, the New Jersey State Police has provided to you with links to the New Jersey legislature website to Chapters 39 and 58 of New Jersey Title 2C. Additionally, copies of the New Jersey Administrative Code Title 13, Chapter 54 , and the New Jersey State Attorney General guidelines regarding the "Substantially Identical" provision in the State's assault firearms laws are being provided to you.


due to the amount of information i really did intentionally triple post. enjoy
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