Login    Register
User Information
Username:
Password:
We are a free and open
community, all are welcome.
Click here to Register
Sponsored
Who is online

In total there are 37 users online :: 5 registered, 0 hidden and 32 guests


Most users ever online was 218 on Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:58 pm

Registered users: Bing [Bot], Exabot [Bot], Google [Bot], MSNbot Media, Yahoo [Bot] based on users active over the past 5 minutes

The Team
Administrators
Global Moderators
global_moderators.png CS

Cleaner vs Primer

A place to ask general spud cannon related questions.
Sponsored 

What will happen?

All 3 will stay together.
7
58%
primer and cleaner will stay together and glue won't
5
42%
only the cleaned pipe will hold
0
No votes
only glued pipe will hold
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 12
  • Author
    Message

Cleaner vs Primer

Unread postAuthor: pat123 » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:42 pm

In this thread we had a discussion about cleaner being as good as primer.

I have primed and glued, cleaned and glued, and just glued three different pipes. My compressor can only go to 300psi and I am using 1/2 inch pipe and fittings so it is possible that none of them will come apart.

The primer and cleaner are curing now so I should have some pics up tomorrow.

i want to see what most people think will happen.
I personally think that cleaner and primer will hold, but at a higher pressure cleaner will fail first.
  • 0

User avatar
pat123
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 514
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2006 10:08 pm
Location: S.C.
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: daberno123 » Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:11 pm

I'm going to have to say the pipes with primer and cleaner will stay together. I'm almost positive the cement will not hold.

Recently I was able to twist off a 1" fitting that had only been cemented with a 24" pipe wrench. :shock:

This is something that has been needed to be done. I agree with you that the cleaner will fail before the primer.

How will you be protecting yourself in case of explosion, flying shrapnel, etc?
  • 0

User avatar
daberno123
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 594
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:56 pm
Location: Ohio
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: MaxuS the 2nd » Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:49 am

I never used primer, but then again..The solvent I use is probably different from the chemicals that you guys use.
  • 0

Badman
User avatar
MaxuS the 2nd
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 674
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 3:59 pm
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: jrrdw » Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:49 am

IMO, 1st the cemented will fail, the the clean and cemented will fail, then the primered and cemented would be the last to go. That's what I think.

I was conversing with a friend about the water system in his shop and he told me the cement he used was all in one. I took that to mean primer and cement mixed together, he didn't have it on hand to show me. Anybody else heard of such a thing?

I also looked in local hardware stores to no advale.
  • 0

When life gives you lemons...throw them back they suck!
User avatar
jrrdw
Donating Moderator
Donating Moderator
 
Posts: 6539
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 5:11 pm
Location: Maryland
Country: United States (us)
Reputation: 25

Unread postAuthor: psycix » Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:30 am

Interesting experiment.
You should also try cleaner->primer->cement as "the ultimate one"

Will you be using water pressure?
  • 0

Till the day I'm dieing, I'll keep them spuddies flying, 'cause I can!

Spudfiles steam group, join!
User avatar
psycix
Donating Member
Donating Member
 
Posts: 3684
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 7:12 am
Location: The Netherlands
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: jimmy101 » Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:17 pm

I doubt any of the joints will fail at 300 PSI. 1/2" Sch 40 PVC is rated to 600 PSI.

I would expect that even a "glue only" joint should be OK at 600 PSI as long as glue was applied to both surfaces of the joint and it was fully cured.

Assuming the safety factor is 2~2.5, a properly done joint shouldn't fail until 1200~1500 PSI, and even then the pipe might fail before the joint.

Filling with water, as psycix suggested, is definitely a good idea. Even if you then pressurize with air.
  • 0

Image

jimmy101
Lieutenant General
Lieutenant General
 
Posts: 3129
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:48 am
Location: Greenwood, Indiana
Country: United States (us)
Reputation: 7

Unread postAuthor: jrrdw » Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:24 pm

Someone posted a water test before, 2" X 10' sch40 pressure rated filled to 1029PSI if I was seeing the video clearly.
  • 0

When life gives you lemons...throw them back they suck!
User avatar
jrrdw
Donating Moderator
Donating Moderator
 
Posts: 6539
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 5:11 pm
Location: Maryland
Country: United States (us)
Reputation: 25

Sponsored

Sponsor
 


Unread postAuthor: SpudFarm » Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:39 pm

http://www.youtube.com/user/stenseltizm

don't know if this is interesting but it is cool and on the 10" i can hear him say " 1200"
  • 0

"Made in France"
- A spud gun insurance.
User avatar
SpudFarm
Donating Member
Donating Member
 
Posts: 2563
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 9:39 am
Location: Norway Trondheim area
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: pat123 » Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:14 pm

well, I got them all to 270 psi without any failures. I think I found one of the problems. I looked in my cement and it has a slight purple tint from a little primer being in there. do you think that the little bit of primer would affect anything?
  • 0

User avatar
pat123
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 514
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2006 10:08 pm
Location: S.C.
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: SpudFarm » Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:56 pm

no, primer goes on first to soften and make a better surface to bond.
i don't think it has anything with the primer to do
  • 0

"Made in France"
- A spud gun insurance.
User avatar
SpudFarm
Donating Member
Donating Member
 
Posts: 2563
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 9:39 am
Location: Norway Trondheim area
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: jimmy101 » Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:22 pm

pat123 wrote:well, I got them all to 270 psi without any failures. I think I found one of the problems. I looked in my cement and it has a slight purple tint from a little primer being in there. do you think that the little bit of primer would affect anything?

I doubt a little bit of primer will have any affect. The primer was probably picked up by the glue brush the last time you glued up a primed joint. The dye in primer has a very intense color so it would only take a small amount to give the glue a purple tint.

I'm not surprised none of the joints failed at 270 PSIG since you are at less than half the pressure rating of NSF-PW rated 1/2" Sch 40 PVC.

Perhaps you could heat the test chambers up and use the temperature derating to simulate higher pressures? Put the water filled chambers in a closed up car in the sun for an hour or so, along with a thermometer. A closed car in the sun might get up to 140F. The derating for PVC at 140F is 0.22 so the pressure rating would drop from 600 PSIG to 132 PSIG, if the water and the chamber gets that hot.
  • 0

Image

jimmy101
Lieutenant General
Lieutenant General
 
Posts: 3129
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:48 am
Location: Greenwood, Indiana
Country: United States (us)
Reputation: 7

Unread postAuthor: Coodude26 » Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:04 pm

From my experience I have noticed cleaner gets off the gunk (hand grease, etc) off the pipe. it does NOT act as primer and should not be used as such.
Primer "digests" the outside of the pipe and lets the cement puncture and get a better grip.

I am about to release a video tutorial on how to properly solvent weld PVC, I just wish Windows movie maker would stop f'ing up.
  • 0

User avatar
Coodude26
Master Sergeant
Master Sergeant
 
Posts: 167
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:03 pm
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: iisthemuffin » Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:10 pm

Coodude26 wrote:From my experience I have noticed cleaner gets off the gunk (hand grease, etc) off the pipe. it does NOT act as primer and should not be used as such.
Primer "digests" the outside of the pipe and lets the cement puncture and get a better grip.

I am about to release a video tutorial on how to properly solvent weld PVC, I just wish Windows movie maker would stop f'ing up.


I tihnk there are quite a few already.

And if you havent read around, there is a widespread debate about primer and cleaner. The purpose of this thread is to test to see which fails first if any fail at all.
  • 0

Poop.
User avatar
iisthemuffin
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 497
Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 2:38 pm
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: Coodude26 » Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:13 pm

Yea, I was jus saying what I thought it was from my experience.

And I believe mine would be the first tutorial to use cleaner.
  • 0

User avatar
Coodude26
Master Sergeant
Master Sergeant
 
Posts: 167
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:03 pm
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: iisthemuffin » Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:16 pm

Cleaner is not completely needed though, so, no offense to you, it offers nothing that the others havent.

And i do not mean to be rude either. Im simply jsut saying, if your encountering problems making the video, dont break your back trying to get it to work as there are plenty of other videos explaining the same thing.
  • 0

Poop.
User avatar
iisthemuffin
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 497
Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 2:38 pm
Reputation: 0

Next

Return to General Spud Cannon Related

Who is online

Registered users: Bing [Bot], Exabot [Bot], Google [Bot], MSNbot Media, Yahoo [Bot]

Reputation System ©'