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A place to ask general spud cannon related questions.
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Unread postAuthor: john bunsenburner » Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:27 pm

And it is not worth the trouble? i do not have a clue whatgun we are talking about but i am guessing it is great, if it is not worth that for you then either u do not take this very seriously(which i doubt) or it is really not worth it in which case you should say that you have to "pass" for this offer...
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Unread postAuthor: MrCrowley » Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:30 pm

john bunsenburner wrote:And it is not worth the trouble? i do not have a clue whatgun we are talking about but i am guessing it is great, if it is not worth that for you then either u do not take this very seriously(which i doubt) or it is really not worth it in which case you should say that you have to "pass" for this offer...

http://www.spudfiles.com/forums/eclipse ... t7879.html

When he could probably get the cannon in another way legally, a firearms permit isn't worth the trouble.
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:45 pm

MrCrowley wrote:When he could probably get the cannon in another way legally, a firearms permit isn't worth the trouble.


The the Ballistic Labs can prove that it does - or can, with very little modification, do - over 12 ft/lbs, then I guess it will be labeled as a de facto firearm in legal terms and therefore require a FireArms Certificate.

When applying for such a certificate, the onus is on the applicant to justify ownership of the item with a good reason, of course "Because it's friggin' WICKED dude!" is as good a reason as any for your average boy-trapped-in-a-man's-body. Proving an actual requirement in court will need something a bit more convincing though...
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Unread postAuthor: ALIHISGREAT » Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:47 pm

These are very picky guys. Now, I've used more firearms than most of the public has (5.56, .22 and 12g) by virtue of having been in the Army Cadets,


haven't you shot the 7.62 cadet target rifle? its one sexy beast of a rifle, and bigger really is better in terms of the fun factor!

and as for the eclipse, after further contemplation... i can't see it being allowed in... its just unrealistic to think that they will allow such as beast in... although i could be completely wrong....

have you called customs yet?
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Unread postAuthor: Hotwired » Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:59 pm

Considering the can will squarely land on the recipients head if customs decide the form is false or misleading, I would not put any faith in renaming the entire package to get it past customs. Not when you can get fined and/or imprisoned for importing an offensive weapon.

Depending on how the cannon can be broken down, as few as two packages could be used to get it past customs without having to be too imaginative with the descriptions. Pipe samples, pressure washer parts...

It's a long and risky way to go for tests.
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Unread postAuthor: SEAKING9006 » Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:14 pm

Hell, I'll do the testing if it's this much trouble! :D
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Unread postAuthor: spudamine » Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:54 pm

These are very picky guys. Now, I've used more firearms than most of the public has (5.56, .22 and 12g) by virtue of having been in the Army Cadets, but even then, I've never fired a semi, excepting use of paintball/airsoft guns.


Don't they let you have a go with the LSW any more these days? I remember a pleasant afternoon spent on the range at Bodmin moor emptying a few Mags, that was 10 years ago though, times change.

I would stay away from the importing in several packages strategy, if customs can't identify it all they're more likely to think its something even worse.
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Unread postAuthor: Hotwired » Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:02 pm

It now doesn't look anything like a large bore gun and has believable innocuous names for the parts therefore it is more likely to look illegal ?
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Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:05 pm

jackssmirkingrevenge wrote:The the Ballistic Labs can prove that it does - or can, with very little modification, do - over 12 ft/lbs

Any paintball gun can be tweaked to do over 12 ft-lbs in about 2 seconds with an allen key. Anything above 320 fps or thereabouts is in the realm of 12 ft-lbs or greater.

Paintball pistols are fully capable of the same (although for typical paintball, the norm is about 9-10 ft-lbs) - despite the fact that no other variety of pistol is allowed above 6 ft-lbs - and are freely sold in the UK with no restrictions at all. I'm not even sure you have to be over 18 (although if it's considered an Imitation firearm, you would need to be)

This is in spite of the fact that a paintball gun could be loaded with lead balls or marbles - something less benign than paintballs.
In short, the fact that something is designed and sold for use as a paintball gun, renders it immune from firearms legislation.

I recognise that if they get shirty, convincing them that the Eclipse is indeed designed and sold for use as a PB gun is going to be a fuss, but it's entirely true, and should therefore be provable.

Also "with very little modification" doesn't actually count. I could easily have my TX above 12 ft-lbs in under 2 minutes with a 3mm and 5mm allen key, a wrench and a few washers. But they can't charge me for holding an FAC air rifle because I can do that, otherwise the system simply couldn't work.
I could with my knowledge, were I so inclined, buy a Crosman Nightstalker and mod it up to be a full auto airgun capable of >12 ft-lbs - it would take a lot of work, and would be beyond a lot of people, but it can be done.
Again, the CPS can't charge anyone for knowing how or having the resources (assuming they are not very specific resources) to do something - otherwise they could charge everyone in the country with robbing banks.


your average boy-trapped-in-a-man's-body.

Me? No, I'm a young-adult-who-thinks-he's-a-boy-trapped-in-a-lanky-young-teen's-body.

I mean, seriously, I'm 20, but my body doesn't behave like it. I can go a fortnight without shaving and only pick up a few short stray chin hairs.
I've also been asked more than once within the last few weeks for ID, because the people thought I looked like I was under 18.

No doubt looking on the young side will be great when I'm older, but right now, it's a bit annoying.

@Hotwired: I will get back to Solar on the "ship in two different packages" thing - but I don't know how happy he'll be about it.

@Seaking: Contrary to your belief, working this out is the easy bit. The testing is going to be a lot harder.
Finding viable ways to improve the Eclipse that justify Solar's expenses in doing this? Not exactly the easiest thing I've ever been asked to do.

@Ali: Regrettably, no, I never got to use the 7.62 target rifle. Never progressed far enough, I was held up from progressing that far by the repeated bad timing of the camps with the First Aid I needed to get to advance further (None of the staff at my detachment had the required training for me to get it there).
(@spudamine: No, nor was I ever on a camp where they had an LSW.)

I may be calling customs, but I want my story 100% straight before I even consider it.

@John: No. It's a great cannon, but even then, it's not worth the troubles of having to get a Section 1 licence.
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Does that thing kinda look like a big cat to you?
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Unread postAuthor: rp181 » Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:19 pm

Just install a small orfice in the barrel that limits the flow, and thus power.
Didn't you say your going to college for mechanical engineering? That would be reason enough, some kind of study.

Personally, i don't think lying is worth it. The risks are too much for just a "toy". Trying to disguise it will be pointless, a gun is a gun no matter what color it is.
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Last edited by rp181 on Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postAuthor: spudamine » Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:21 pm

It now doesn't look anything like a large bore gun and has believable innocuous names for the parts therefore it is more likely to look illegal ?



just saying a deliberate deception raises the stakes somewhat in this age of paranoia
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Unread postAuthor: Hotwired » Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:46 pm

The point is to examine how it can get in.

There's zero chance of a multishot air cannon well over legal air weapon power limits getting in as itself.

Disassembled the only obviously suspect bit is the pistol grip.
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Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Thu Nov 27, 2008 6:32 pm

rp181 wrote:Just install a small orfice in the barrel that limits the flow, and thus power.

Not a very efficent ruse. If they had a cannon like that and it WASN'T over 12 ft-lbs that in itself would make them very suspicious.

I can't do anything about the power it's putting out and I can't get a firearms licence.
If it's coming into the country, customs have to believe that it is what I say it is - be that a pile of innocuous parts, a paintball gun or net launcher.

If I can get them convinced it's a paintball gun, they shouldn't be testing it at all, and the results wouldn't matter anyway.

Didn't you say your going to college for mechanical engineering? That would be reason enough, some kind of study.

In the US, maybe - over here, unfortunately, I doubt it would. I know places like Cranfield University do lots of crap with explosions, but...

...hmm, but that gets me thinking, perhaps having it shipped to me under some company name would help.
If an internet form ever insists on me having a company name, I usually go with "Timberwolf Pneumatic Services" (or in the past, "Apocalypse Air Accelerators")

So like: David Agnew, Timberwolf Pneumatic Services, 48 Dale Road, Woking, Norfolk
It might be a bit more convincing, if they think a real company is involved, rather than a single person.

Note, that's neither my real address (actually, it's completely impossible. There is neither a Dale Road in Woking, nor is Woking in Norfolk) or real surname. David Agnew is actually a pseudonym that was used by several BBC writers when their name couldn't be used for contractual reasons, and one I've stolen for internet use as it's a nice disguise.

@rp181: Well, in the UK, a toy airsoft gun is no longer a replica firearm if it's mainly in a bright colour like pink or green, it then becomes an imitation firearm, which has lesser requirements - so colour does matter under some areas of the law. However this really only applies to airsoft guns, and won't affect the situation here.
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Does that thing kinda look like a big cat to you?
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Unread postAuthor: Solar » Sun Nov 30, 2008 4:45 am

Wow Rag... why the hell do you have to live in the UK? I was hoping to send a few different barrel lengths and bores. shhhh, it can convert between 38mm and 40mm with the same threading on barrels. Wanted to send some other ballast chamber goodies and such. What school are you going to be attending? Perhaps we can do some sort of research grant to the school with you in charge of the project or something. Other than that, I like the idea of having obvious paintball packaging.

The first fifty launchers have pretty much all become field test units since there is so much data to collect. We are just tomorrow getting to launching the new STRIFE rounds that have a denser material to stiffen the fins and with the absence of the pocket for a paintball we should get some seriously accurate projectiles.

20? hahaha, you talk like a much older nerd Ragnarok. What about you JSR? Didn't think I asked your age either? Please don't say 14 or something like that. (no offense to 14 year olds spudchuckers)

Who says the Eclipse is intimidating?

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Unread postAuthor: frankrede » Sun Nov 30, 2008 5:30 am

You know I am more than willing to do desert testing for the eclipse;)
I live in las vegas you see.
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