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semi auto/full auto idea

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semi auto/full auto idea

Unread postAuthor: raptorforce » Fri Dec 12, 2008 4:22 pm

My idea is kinda like the m16s gas system but mines uses air to operate.
The valve would have a piece of pipe sticking out and there would be a hole in the pipe which you would put a tube in. Then the tube would be attached to a piece of wood/plastic and the wood would be attached to the barrel. so when the gun fires some air would be diverted to the tube and push the whole barrel foward. but the barrel would is kinda heavy so its be slower then the projectile and the projectile would leve the barrel before the barrl opens.

problems i think there will be would be: Not enough air will be able to push the barrel. my guns is single shot so i would have to pump it up it again but you could attach a co2 tanks or something.

tell me what you think about it
might get a pic up sometime
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Re: semi auto/full auto idea

Unread postAuthor: ALIHISGREAT » Fri Dec 12, 2008 4:52 pm

raptorforce wrote:My idea is kinda like the m16s gas system but mines uses air to operate.
The valve would have a piece of pipe sticking out and there would be a hole in the pipe which you would put a tube in. Then the tube would be attached to a piece of wood/plastic and the wood would be attached to the barrel. so when the gun fires some air would be diverted to the tube and push the whole barrel foward. but the barrel would is kinda heavy so its be slower then the projectile and the projectile would leve the barrel before the barrl opens.

problems i think there will be would be: Not enough air will be able to push the barrel. my guns is single shot so i would have to pump it up it again but you could attach a co2 tanks or something.

tell me what you think about it
might get a pic up sometime


its definitely doable... but its over complicated for a single shot.

then with the pressures of a normal spudgun, you would need a large surface area for the air to push on, and lots of air therefore... so the projectile would need to be slow moving.... so therefore heavy...

i just don't think it would be worth it :wink:

but thats just me!
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Unread postAuthor: jitup » Fri Dec 12, 2008 4:57 pm

I think it would be better suited for a semi auto ar a full auto, but you would be wasting air to push the barrel, when if it was fixed your projectile would get all the air. I think it would be cool, but inefficient.
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Unread postAuthor: skyjive » Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:14 pm

I agree, it is certainly possible, but it is far more practical to have some kind of bolt that moves to cycle the action rather than having the entire barrel move.
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Unread postAuthor: raptorforce » Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:22 pm

ok is shall think about a smaller bolt to move rather then the whole barrel
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Unread postAuthor: Hotwired » Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:45 pm

If you want to have the barrel move forward you just don't secure it ^^

I've had flying barrels launched simply by the resistance of having a projectile in the tube.

Besides in my book, using the primary gas blast to recock a cannon is not a good thing.

Not least of which is the fact that it would be a right menace to have the barrel detatch from the piston port while a significant volume of pressurised gas is still trying to exit the cannon.

Now, the pressure increase from charging the chamber. That's a different matter and an avenue I'm personally interested in.

I reinvented Solars cartridge locking system today while working my way through it.
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Unread postAuthor: SEAKING9006 » Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:48 pm

Not feasible at the pressures most cannons operate at. Been discussed before, there are far more efficient ways of doing it.
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Unread postAuthor: brogdenlaxmiddie » Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:28 pm

I have heard so many semi auto/full auto ideas that I'm literally going to shoot the next one who posts one. Come on! I mean, I understand you think its a great idea but PLEASE try to have some other data to support your claim about it. Or how about trying to build it and then tell us? [/rant]

Ok, sorry if that sounded harsh, I've had a long day...
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Unread postAuthor: judgment_arms » Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:52 pm

brogdenlaxmiddie wrote:I have heard so many semi auto/full auto ideas that I'm literally going to shoot the next one who posts one. Come on! I mean, I understand you think its a great idea but PLEASE try to have some other data to support your claim about it. Or how about trying to build it and then tell us? [/rant]

Ok, sorry if that sounded harsh, I've had a long day...


Dang, Tedder, pop open a can of Dew and chill... :roll:

all I ask is a picture, one simple picture, be it a CAD rendering or something scribbled on a piece of paper after hitting you head on the toilet you were standing on while adjusting a clock.
A picture is worth a thousand poorly spelled and punctuated grammar nightmares that are passed off as sentences.



back to the OP:
it sounds like gas operation, but instead of moving the bolt you move the whole barrel...

my advice would be to make a run-of-the-mill slide breach out of a reamed out coupler and have your gas system move that back to open the breach then manually return the breach to battery once you load it.

since it's single shot you anyways you don't need a spring return nor a magazine.

Tap the barrel for the gas port 5/8 to 3/4 of the way down the barrel for pressures less than 80psi.
the closer the gas port to the breach the more likly it is to cycle bt the less power the shot will have.

use a large bore gas ram, at 90-120psi I had best results with a 1.5" bore cylinder, I had a 3/4" SCH40 PVC barrel and a 3/4" transfer port.
with 3 paintbals and a gas-check/shot-cup made of paper-towel I got a power stroke of ~3 inches but that was trying to overcome a light spring.

there, chew on that a bit and draw a picture of your original idea as, flawed or flawless, it's worth documenting for later reference. :wink:
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Last edited by judgment_arms on Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postAuthor: starman » Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:01 pm

judgment_arms wrote:all I ask is a picture, one simple picture, rather it be a CAD rendering or something scribbled on a piece of paper after hitting you head on the toilet you were standing on while adjusting a clock.
A picture is worth a thousand poorly spelled and punctuated grammar nightmares that are passed off as sentences.


I couldn't agree more.... Raptor, I began reading your description and soon started feeling this overwhelming desire to just scratch my eyes out...so I just blah blah blahed my way through it, knowing I really value my eyes in a major way... :roll:

Don't worry about CAD, just a stupid line and box and circle drawing will do.
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Unread postAuthor: judgment_arms » Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:15 pm

starman wrote:
judgment_arms wrote:all I ask is a picture, one simple picture, rather it be a CAD rendering or something scribbled on a piece of paper after hitting you head on the toilet you were standing on while adjusting a clock.
A picture is worth a thousand poorly spelled and punctuated grammar nightmares that are passed off as sentences.


I couldn't agree more.... Raptor, I began reading your description and soon started feeling this overwhelming desire to just scratch my eyes out...so I just blah blah blahed my way through it, knowing I really value my eyes in a major way... :roll:

Don't worry about CAD, just a stupid line and box and circle drawing will do.


CAD was just the high end of the spectrum, a good MSpaint drawing will do fine, that's what I use.

note that the low end was a concussion induced scribble...
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Unread postAuthor: raptorforce » Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:21 am

ok i get it my idea will not work thats why i posted it to see what i had missed. You all say the same thing except for judge. my idea seriouly sucks and ill make it so please stop just ssaying the same thing which would I WANT PROOF. i have never seen a semi auto idea like mine so i couldnt have known im new i only joined like 2 weeks ago
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Unread postAuthor: judgment_arms » Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:04 am

raptorforce wrote:ok i get it my idea will not work thats why i posted it to see what i had missed. You all say the same thing except for judge. my idea seriouly sucks and ill make it so please stop just ssaying the same thing which would I WANT PROOF. i have never seen a semi auto idea like mine so i couldnt have known im new i only joined like 2 weeks ago


hey now, settle down.

criticism is meant to be learned from, and well it can be harsh it usually offers some good insight.

your on the right track, a through study of John Moses Browning's works will get you to success like a rocket sled on rails. :D
A lot of his early works relied on black powder, scaled up with minor modifications to allow for the lower operating pressures and you should get a working system.


also, a little practice in spelling and grammar will do you a world of good. :wink:


...except for judge.

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Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:38 am

As a future guidance point, most gas operated systems like the M16 require considerably more pressure than most spudguns work to work reliably.

There are firearm loaders that can be adapted however. Direct blowback and some revolver based designs have seen some successes.
I'm not sure if recoil operated has ever really had any spudgun successes, but it's conceivably possible with the right design.

judgment_arms wrote:or something scribbled on a piece of paper after hitting your head on the toilet you were standing on while adjusting a clock.

I've tried this technique many a time, and no matter how badly I concuss myself, I have never drawn anything of value.
Last thing I drew looked like a portable toilet and the time before that it looked like a satellite dish strapped to the back of a chair. All useless.
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Unread postAuthor: raptorforce » Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:51 am

well judge i do understand that criticism is meant to be learned from and that's what i wanted to know where i was wrong but some people like starman was like comparing it to scratching out his eyes and brogdenlaxmiddle saying hes gonna shoot someone that just kinda got me mad. i thought this would be a nicer place but now i know thats its just the real world where there are going to be nice and mean people but everyone else is nice and helpful

the spelling thing is because somehow my laptop's spell check got turned off and i have no idea how to turn it back on
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