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FiveseveN's designs

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FiveseveN's designs

Unread postAuthor: FiveseveN » Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:53 pm

Decided to sketch some of my ideas and make a thread of it. It will be updated if I get some new ones, of course.

I'll start with the Spray Can Cartrige, which I've mentioned in another thread.

Image

The idea is to put a sprinkler valve in a spray can and use the can's valve to actuate it. This was initially intended for a semi/auto cannon that uses these cans as pressurized air cartridges, much like the Brocock air cartridges.

The second idea, the Rotating Loading System, comes from combining GalFisk's ball valve idea with H&K's feeding system on the G11 rifle.

Image

I'ts a ball valve, with lever replaced and a hole drilled perpendicular to normal flow, plus a magazine epoxied on top of it (or below, but a magazine spring is needed), feeding projectiles vertically, just like in the G11 rifle.
The mechanism needs to be externally powered (from an electric or hydraulic motor). Coupled with a good compressor, it can make a very good auto. It can also be driven by hand, making it semi-auto.

1- Projectile (bullet-shaped)
2- Epoxy or similar adhesive
3- Reducer (from ball valve ID to barrel OD)
4- Modified ball valve
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Unread postAuthor: FiveseveN » Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:20 pm

Part 3: The Ghetto APFSDS projectile.

Image

Sorry for the quick sketch.
I'm planning on using this ammo in my 14mm caliber AMC (will be posted soon).
In case you don't know, APFSDS stands for Armour Piercing, Fin Stabilized, Discarding Sabot. It's a modern kinetic energy round used chiefly against tanks. It's quite efficient: a hit from more than 5000m away has been reported and stories tell one of these projectiles went all the way through an Iraki tank and still had enough energy to pierce and destroy another tank that was behind it.

My design goes nowhere near that, it's just a quick way to fire a fin stabilized projectile. I haven't even tested this idea yet, so further development is on top of my priority list.

The round consists of two sheet metal cut-outs (A and B), fit together to make a stabilized projectile. The two pieces may be glued together along the axis, for added durability and weight. One could also add 4 nails to the glued part, portruding from the front.
Next step is fitting it in the sabot. The sabot (C) is a potato/apple/styrofoam/etc. cilynder, pre-cut to barrel caliber. Make two perpendicular lenghtwise cuts, as pictured. DON'T CUT ALL THE WAY THROUGH! Leave a small disc at the bottom (D), about 3~5mm thick (depending on material; remains to be tested). Now add the projectile. It should be a mildly loose fit. The disc (D) should hold the sabot together before launch, but should come apart after the projectile leaves the barrel, due to friction. Don't make the sabot aerodynamic. If possible, make the top a bit sunken in, so there will be more friction and the sabot will be more likely to separate and the separation earlier.
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Unread postAuthor: spudshot » Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:31 pm

i was not aware of the HK G11's loading mechanism, i thought the only thing special about that gun was that it fired caseless rounds, i believe the FN P90 does something similar, since the bullets are stacked at a 90 degree angle to the barrel correct?
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Unread postAuthor: FiveseveN » Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:03 pm

Nope, they are aligned at the end of the mag:

The P90 is built in a unique bullpup configuration that places the 50-round translucent magazine above the weapon, parallel to the barrel. A circular ramp at the bottom of each magazine re-aligns each round to the barrel.
Taken from Wikipedia. I was just reading that article yesterday.

Due to this ramp, the P90 mags need to be capped at the end or carried in a special bag, otherwise the cardtriges would fall out :) . The P90 is a nice weapon, but it has some minor flaws in design. The G11 was much more interesting. Too bad it went down the drain.
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Unread postAuthor: spudmonkey » Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:15 pm

looks kool nice idea
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Unread postAuthor: Atlantis » Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:30 pm

http://www.free-time.ru/military/gun/gun/hk_g11.html
This shows how the HK 11 loads, it pushes the bullets to the end of the mag where they fall into the ball valve, which rotates them. This rotates them in a vertical orientation, from pointing down to pinting straight.
The P90 rotates the bullets from sideways to straight. Hope that clears things up.
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Unread postAuthor: boilingleadbath » Sat Apr 01, 2006 10:38 pm

Your "stabilized" projectiles won't be staple; the COM will be in [nearly] the exact same place as the COP. Soldering/brazing/welding/epoxying the contraption onto the end of a nail/bit of coathanger/bearing/UFO, however, would make it stable.
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Unread postAuthor: Atlantis » Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:10 am

If you drilled a hole in the bottom of the ball valve, wouldn't you be able to load PVC Shells with Potatoes in them, and then dump the empty shell out of the bottom. You would just have to make the shell the same size as the barrel. Use a 2" Ball Valve and a 1.5" Barrel and 1.5" Shells.
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Unread postAuthor: FiveseveN » Mon Apr 03, 2006 11:21 am

BLB, you're right and that's what I intended to do. I tested some non-discarding sabot ammo this weekend and since it's easier to make, I may use that as standard ammo. Sketch soon to come.
Atlantis: you're right, but what's the point in adding shells to the whole system? It may be useful for fragmented projectiles (shotgun ammo) or paintballs, but for the initial purpose it's over-complicating things.
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Unread postAuthor: )DEMON( » Mon Apr 03, 2006 2:46 pm

so i guess you guys would be into weapons,gun design,ballistics,ect.
thats cool, i wanna be a gun smith later in life but i got no time to search the internet for that kind of thing :(
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Unread postAuthor: Atlantis » Mon Apr 03, 2006 4:11 pm

Is it possible to pre cut the potatoes and put them in the ammo magazine without shells?
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Unread postAuthor: FiveseveN » Mon Apr 03, 2006 4:59 pm

Yup, that was the initial plan. Allthough molded plastic and such would probably work better.
The thing with vegetables is you don't really need to pre-cut them. Just jab a cylinder of produce in the magazine and the ball valve should cut it to desired lenght automatically.
The 100 MpH Food Processor :lol:
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Unread postAuthor: Atlantis » Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:39 pm

I might actually try this if I can find a 1.5" Ball Valve, I think I can get one. I think I found a way to use shells simply for the cool visual effect of ejecting shells. Put a small spring in the ball valve to eject the shells, the magazine spring needs to be stronger to overcome it though.. IF you wanted to make the magazine horizontal, use a second ball valve to rotate it back to horizontal, just rig the 2 ball valves to spin together, I'd draw it but it's kinda hard to draw. Hope you understand.
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